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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Is anyone familiar w/ this Plasma torch?
- - By DaveSisk (**) Date 07-08-2002 02:46
Here's the URL:

[url]http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45850[/url]

This looks very interesting. I gather it's a heat source similar to a oxy-acetylene torch, but uses an arc and/or water vapor? Has anyone used one of these? Can anyone supply any details?

Regards,
Dave


Parent - - By Niekie3 (***) Date 07-09-2002 21:49
Seeing as you have not had any answers here, I thought that I would give a couple of thoughts - or rather questions that you would need to answer before buying this unit.

Firstly, I must say that this is the first time that I have seen such a unit. It appears to be a Plasma Arc "cutter", but instead of using air or other conventional gas as a means of removing the moulten metal, it uses steam. This leads me to two statements / questions:

1) Some metals such as Al will spontaneously combust when heated in the presence of steam. Do you want to cut such metals? If so, is there a problem? (Usually Al would not be cut thermally because it is so easy to cut with mechanical means, but you never know what ideas people have.)
2) Some metals are extremely sensitive to hydrogen pick-up. Surely this will be a problem when using this unit to cut these metals.

I would say that you need to decide what you want to use this unit for, and then get an assurance from the suppliers that it will do the job.

Regards
Niekie
Parent - - By DaveSisk (**) Date 07-10-2002 02:03
Thanks for the reply. This post was more out of curiosity than anything else. (There's obviously a lot to learn about the topic of welding!) I've contacted the supplier to get an electronic copy of the manual to get an idea of what it'll do. If anyone is interested, I'll post some of the information here after I get hold of the manual.

Regards,
Dave
Parent - By Niekie3 (***) Date 07-10-2002 19:43
Yes please, that should be interesting.

Regards
Niekie
Parent - - By GRoberts (***) Date 07-10-2002 20:28
If you try it, let us all know. I plasma welded once, and loved it. It's like Tig, but only easier. But for $600? I'm a born skeptic, but who knows?
Parent - By DaveSisk (**) Date 07-11-2002 17:48
Please, do give us details on your welding experience with the plasma torch! I'm very interested in learning everything that I can, so that I can make a good purchase decision.

Also, Harbor Freight is mailing me a printout of the manual for the plasma torch in the URL above. They tried to send it via email as a PDF file, but it's too large. I'll post some details here after I get the hardcopy and read through it.

Dave
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-11-2002 18:39
hey Dave,

I've seen demos of something similar (plasma/water/steam) at one of the AWS Exhibits a few years ago. The one I saw could make cuts in ferrous and non-ferrous sheet up to about ΒΌ inch. The thing was so efficient that carpet was set about 6 inches under the material being cut and was never burned. So it's relatively spark free and no bright light. It was not as fast as a conventional plasma but sure looked to be Ideal for fine sheet metal work. It was light, did not draw much current, and did not require a compressor. I sure would like to know how one of these babies performs under extended shop conditions.
Parent - By DaveSisk (**) Date 07-11-2002 23:13
Cool. Thanks for the post. Do you recall who the manufacturer was? Someone at Harbor Freight said these were made for them by a domestic mfg, but I couldn't get the person to say who. I'd imagine this mfg also sells something very similar.

It would certainly be nice to have something that can cut as well as weld. (I know everyone's going to say "get a oxy-acetylene torch!", but my workshop is attached to the house, and the thought of high explosives makes myself and my wife a bit nervous, especially in someone inexperienced like myself, so something like this plasma torch actually sounds quite ideal.) The biggest question on my mind though is: how do you weld with it? The same way you'd weld with an oxy-acetylene torch?

Dave
Parent - By DaveSisk (**) Date 07-16-2002 13:14
A minor update here. I'm still waiting on the manual for this gadget. I talked with a tech support person at Harbor Freight who has actually done some welding. He said they've been selling this plasma torch for about a year, and they've had very few returns (that's a good sign). He said it'll cut 1/8" mild steel, stainless, and aluminum, and it'll weld 3/16" in all three. I asked him about how the weld is shielded (given the unit uses water vapor), and he didn't know any answers to this question. He did say "Just try it. The only thing you lose if you order one and return it is about $6." Hard to argue with that. But, I'll still give the manual a good read first when it gets here, then decide if I want to give it a try.

Dave
Parent - - By DaveSisk (**) Date 07-23-2002 02:26
Hi Folks!

I finally received the manual for this gadget. It's technically an "ALPLAZ-04". The manual has decent pictures, but the wording appears to be a not-so-good translation from a foreign language (big surprise, eh?), but it's still understandable. In a nutshell, here's a rundown.

You fill the torch itself with 2 oz. of water to cut, or 2 oz. of a 60/40 water/alcohol mix to weld or braze. There are 6 amperage settings on the power supply, and a display that shows the voltage. There are two electrodes inside the torch, and there are rings on the torch that you turn to adjust the distance between the two electrodes. Adjusting this distance sets the voltage which shows on the display on the power-supply. You want to get it set so that the voltage is between 160-180 volts to maintain the arc inside the torch. The arc between the two electrodes superheats the water/steam to the "plasma" state. (That part still sounds a little hokey to me, but who knows.) You then turn on the power supply, and press and release a button on the back of the torch to make the electrodes contact and seperate, starting the arc. Apparently the super-heated steam "plasma" rushes out the front of the torch at a temperature of around 15,000 degrees fahrenheit. According to the manual, you get what looks like a pin-point kind of "jet flame". The manual says the flame is very similar to a oxy-acetylene torch, except that the temperature is higher and it's a more focused "jet flame". As you select different amperage settings on the power-supply, you turn the rings on the torch to adjust the voltage to between 160-180 volts, as shown on the power-supply's display.

To cut, you simply point the tip at the metal and get the torch as close as possible (or touch the tip to the metal). To weld or braze, you apply flux to the pieces, then purportedly use the torch and filler rods the same way you would with an oxy-acetylene torch. So, I believe I may have partially answered my own question about what shields the weld pool (the flux you apply). The manual also said specifically to use a 40/60 mix of alcohol/water (any kind of alcohol) when welding or brazing. I'm also wondering if the alcohol decomposes in the heat into something that also shields the weld pool. Anyone know the chemistry behind this? (It would be nice if the manual made any clear statements about this, but it doesn't.)

So, no arc actually touches the metal, it's contained inside the torch. The "jet flame" that comes out the end is what provides the heat. There's no ground clamp that you connect to the work piece because there's no current flowing through it.

This is a very interesting approach and now I really wonder how well it actually works. Right off though, one impression I have is it probably isn't the most durable thing I've ever seen/read about. If I already had 220V power in my little workshop, I'd probably order one just to experiment with (even if I ended up returning it later).

So, what's everyone's thoughts?

Dave
Parent - By DaveSisk (**) Date 07-23-2002 02:37
I just searched for this ALPLAZ-04, and apparently it's made in Russia. Here's a url or two of some discussions about it...

http://olympus.het.brown.edu/pipermail/spr/Week-of-Mon-20020520/001346.html

http://www.lns.cornell.edu/spr/2002-05/msg0041950.html

These two postings seem to indicate that the chemical reaction that happens involving the alcohol shields the weld pool with steel, but flux is still needed for aluminum. Very, very interesting...

Dave
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Is anyone familiar w/ this Plasma torch?

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