Gentlemen, we are making fillet welds on 304 SS in the vertical position using GTAW. The WPS says stringer or weave beads with no restriction on weave width. This is a prequalified procedure. D1.6, Table 3.5 says Maximum Single Pass Layer Width is 1/2". Also, saying the Max. Single Pass fillet weld size is 3/16. These fillets we are making are anywhere from 3/16 to 1/2". What would be the maximum weave width allowed 1/2"? Thanks for any help.

I was asked to look at some continuous flare bevel groove welds today. These welds attach a 1" thick lintel plate to a HSS20 x 8 x 1/2.

There was no weld size shown in the weld symbol, so the welds are required to be flush per D1.1

When the welder ran the cap pass, he ended up with a 1 3/16" wide cap, that he made in a single pass, using the GMAW process with .045 wire.

I have been unable to find acceptance criteria for this single cap pass width, mainly due to my lack of patience to look for it.

I have never seen this done until today. The weld looks good, but is it code compliant?

We have a “CWI” on staff who is giving our welders the 1G limited thickness groove test, using 1/2” plate, which qualifies the welder for thicknesses up to 1” inclusive. I would think that the specimen width should be per Figure 6.8 Face and Root Bend Specimen, as Table 6.11 Welder and Welding Operator Qualification references, which would be 1 1/2” wide and 1/2” thick. Our “CWI is cutting 1/2” width x 1/2” thick specimen, which actually end up being 1/2 square, which I can’t believe is per D1.1

References are from AWS D1.1 2020

Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated.

I remember relevant topics had been disscussed somewhere on this forum.

Guess I'm not the only one encountered a 3rd party or customer inspector rejecting a weld due to its as-welded "weld face" width.
I do see some Code paragraphs limiting the width of bead to a certain level such as 4x the electrode core diameter. And some welding recommendation imply that purpose of it is to control the heat input...

In my earlier career working with many seasoned welding people I don't remember any concern raised for the bead or weld face width.

Please note that I'm using the term "weld face" width from AWS A3.0 other than "bead width" so here is my question:

Can the width of "weld face" in the as-welded condition be considered as "bead width", especially when weave bead technique is used?

Happy to know and learn from any ideas or thoughts.

Cheers,

JZ

Dear friends,
1. What will be the maximum weave width limit in GMAW. Can we put this area as "not applicable" for GMAW.
2. If a WPS is qualified for single pass fillet weld, can we use this PQR for multipass. In ASME sec ix it is mentioned as supplementary essential variable, our procedure have no impact requirement.
NOTE : Reference code is ASME SEC IX

Dear friends,
1. What will be the maximum weave width limit in GMAW. Can we put this area as "not applicable" for GMAW.
2. If a WPS is qualified for single pass fillet weld, can we use this PQR for multipass. In ASME sec ix it is mentioned as supplementary essential variable, our procedure have no impact requirement.
NOTE : Reference code is ASME SEC IX

Dear All
just asking which code can i find the description of cap width (i know that must not more than 3 times the electrode dia) so if any body know the code and which section .thanks

D1.1 2015 figure 4.6 shows the width of a PQR plate as 7".  How critical is this dimension?

I need to qualify something to both D1.1 and another (similar) code that actually shows this dimension as 10".

The material that I am qualifying is only available in a 6.5" width.  Should I run with the 6.5" width and accept the results?

We're doing a stick rod job in the pipe fab shop, something we rarely do anymore. TIG/7018. I was looking at the WPS and it says you can stringer or weave, then it says max bead width is "3 times stick diameter". Now, I have seen 3 times electrode diameter before, never seen 'stick' diameter.
Is it possible they are including the flux in the equation, and not just the bare end? I thought that wording was kind of odd. If you're doing 3 times the electrode diameter there's not going to be a whole lot of weaving going on.

D1.1 has table 3.7 to control bead width, why isn't there something comparable in D1.6?

Gentlemen,

I have often been confused by the acceptance std. of a weld bead with excessive width. Many discussions have been made on this topic in my daily job but it is still not clear to me, and the third party inspector always rejects the weld in following cases.

1) "excessive root pass width" and 2) "excessive cap pass with".
The former is the welder has filled the excessive root opening in an improper prepared groove during fit-up, which does not confirm to its WPS. The latter is caused by a out of tolerance groove/bevel angle, for which the weld has finished the surface to make a nice like by a single cap pass.

There is a concept "forming factor"="width of weld bead/depth of weld bead", referenced from some welding handbooks. Fortunately, there is limitation that can be referenced in AWS D1.1 Clause 3.7.2 and also Table 3.7 but I can not find the similar stipulation(maybe there is) from ISO std./ASME code. Then I am interested in how the issue-excessive weld bead width if happens, is properly solved in a satisfactory way generally.

Does anyone experience this issue and can you please share me your view?

Many thanks.

Allen.Liao

I had someone ask me how to determine the width to depth ratio of a weld bead. I thought it would be useful to post a response here.

The depth of a root bead (in this example) is the difference between the plate thickness and the distance to the top of the root bead.

The width of the bead is measured with a pair of dividers and is measured toe to toe.

Assuming the plate is 1-inch thick, the depth of the root bead is 1-inch minus 1/4-inch = 3/4-inch.

The width of the root bead when measuring point to point wth the dividers is 5/8-inch.

The W/D ratio is simply 0.75/0.625 = 1.2. This does not comply with the W/D limitation of less than or equal to 1 per D1.1:2010,clause 3.7.2. See Figure 3.1. The embedded sketch may prove to be useful in understanding my explanation.

This limitation of prequalification also applies to individual weld beads in a multiple bead weld. That can be a tricky proposition if the inspector isn't on top of matters and there is no one monitoring individual weld beads. I am not proposing the inspector must "bird dog" the welder, but if the welder is suddenly experiencing centerline cracking, I would monitor the welder's technique a little closer and pay attention to the number of weld beads needed to fill the groove. If the welder is depositing 3 beads to complete the weld rather than the normal 5 or 6 beads, there could be a problem with the width to depth ratio. The conditions of prequalification are not being met and the TPI has reasonable basis to reject the welds.

Best regards - Al

I've searched the forum already, so please don't fuss, but I need an answer.  The Instructor I work under says that D1.1 had a revision this year that limits the bead width to 1-2x electrode diameter for stringers, and 3x electrode diameter for weave beads.  This seems to be quite restrictive, but what do I know???   So my question to you D1.1 gurus is ..... Is there a restriction on bead width?  I always heard(and read over and over on this forum) that D1.1 has nothing to say regarding bead width.   And how the hell could you make a 3/32" bead with 3/32" 7018 electrode?

Does anyone know the correct width for an aluminum weld to be when welding a butt weld on 3.5-5" .065-.083 thick pipe?  I have always been told for 14 years that your weld should be 3X the thickness of the material you are welding and I have this "welding guru) at work that says he use to be a welding teacher, says that it has to be 3X the width of the filler rod you are using. Who is right?  Cause he has the big wigs at the company believing that. For example, if I attempt to weld a drink can together using 1/8" rod ( just saying, cause I know it can't be done with that size) means the "correct" weld would have to be 3/8" thick. In my book that just sounds completely ignorant. By the way, the teacher says I can't weld right and my welded have been to SEMA and to various shows and he can 't hardly weld aluminum. I just want to know the truth and thank you in advance

Dear All :

Happy New Year to You!

I have some question about AWS D1.1 Table 3.7 Layer Width:
I can not find the difinition for 'Layer Width' on AWS A 3.0. Also can not find in AWS D1.1.
1.Which width is the 'layer width'?
2.How to measure it?
When the Singel pass layer width is exceed the limitation(for example:5/8 in). we must split the layer!
3.When the layer width is 1 5/8 in, How to split it?
We only need to split this layer into 2  pass?  In this way the singel should over 1 in.
or 3 pass? the pass weld width also over 5/8 in. Becaus of the Overlap in each pass.
Should split it in 5 pass? Pls see the drawing!

Thank you Very much!

Are you aware of weld bead width being addressed in any other Codes or Standards other than ASME Section I?

QCRobert

In gtaw welding, I understand bead width is usually restricted to size of the nozzle with stringer beads.           However are there recommended ratios for tungsten size and filler size?          Also is there a maximum width ratios for (1) nozzle size (2). tungsten size and (3) filler size?

Does anyone know what the maximum bead width is for SMAW using 1/8th rods? I thought it was 5 times the diameter of the wire. Does D1.1 mention this and where to find it?

When a specification says the weave shall not exceed 3 times the SMAW rod diameter, does this mean the total rod diameter including the flux?

Ref:  AWS D1.1 table 3.7 (prequalified WPS requirements)

Does the "maximum single pass layer width" row at the bottom of the table apply to both butt welds and multi-pass fillet welds?

In reference to having students taking AWS performance qualification tests.

If I created a written set of testing procedures for a SMAW welder qualification test in compliance with AWS D1.1Prequalified - WPS / B-U2a. Can I limit the maximum weave width to 7/8" of an inch? I have seen past posts addressing the issue of SMAW weave limitations. I want to make sure our qualification tests are in full compliance with D1.1 testing requirements.

In reference to having students taking AWS performance qualification tests.

If I created a written set of testing procedures for a SMAW welder qualification test in compliance with AWS D1.1Prequalified - WPS / B-U2a. Can I limit the maximum weave width to 7/8" of an inch? I have seen past posts addressing the issue of SMAW weave limitations. I want to make sure our qualification tests are in full compliance with D1.1 testing requirements.

why is there no answer for SMAW in D1.1 table 3.7..............maximum single pass layer width......?

and what does "split layers" mean....?

I'm testing to D1.1 and on page 179 figure 4.31 for 2006 on the plate dimensions for these test coupons it's telling me i need a 3" wide backing strip if i'm not going to have these plates x-rayed.  Do i really need to use a 3" wide backing strip?  This armor plate isn't cheap and i'd like to use as little material as possible for a backing strip like say at least 1".   You only need a 1" strip if your going to use x-ray for testing.  I'm assuming this is because distortion doesn't really matter for x-ray and a 3" wide strip will cut down on distortion for the bend straps.  If i can keep these things straight can i use a smaller backing strip? Thanks , Kix...

   I know what the maximum single pass fillet weld size is, but does anyone know off hand if there is a maximum 2 and 3rd pass stringer width say on a 5/8" fillet weld?  I got a guy that is making these fillets in 2 passes.  His first pass is real small (1/4") and then he lays a gorrilla weld over top of that and it's not penetrating into the base material very far at all.  On that 2nd pass he is only getting into the base material maybe a 1/32" if that. 

hi everybody,

I couldn't find any where( in D1.1& D1.5 ,..), any limitation (maximum) for width to length ratio of groove weld ,

but,as i can remember it was not allowable cabs widther than a maximum limit based on acceptance criteria of the company in my previous inspection position.

what paragraph of AWS D1.1 justify it ?

hi everybody,

I couldn't find any where( in D1.1& D1.5 ,..), any limitation (maximum) for width to length ratio of groove weld ,

but,as i can remember it was not allowable cabs widther than a maximum limit based on acceptance criteria of the company in my previous inspection position.

what paragraph of AWS D1.1 justify it ?

Dear pple,

How to determine what bead width to have with what voltage and current setting?

How do we determine what bead width we should have?

Any good websites for weld bead information?

Thanks

Does anyone know the maximum width a cover pass can be when Mig welding a grooved butt joint in aluminum plate using 3/64(.047) wire with a 5/8" nozzle on the Mig gun. The local WPS does not have a max size listed.

Does any body know what the maximum WIDTH of a vertical groove root pass is in D1.5 ? In the code book all I can find is that the maximum THICKNESS of a vertical root pass is 6mm. I cant find any dimension for the width. Also are there any special provisions for the acceptability criteria of a SMAW root pass that will be followed by a FCAW multi pass weld ? Shall this root pass be subject to all the criteria of a final weld IE: no undercut, no wagon tracks, etc ? We are putting in a E7018 1/8 root followed by a FCAW 280 amp filler pass in a vertical groove of 40 mm effective throat.

With E 7018-1 electrode (Dia. 3.25 mm), weave width may be how many milimeters max. as per standard Asme sec IX or B31.3 ?
lets say 24" LTCS pipe with wall thickness 33 milimeters.

In D1.1 where might I find information on this.


Thanks,

Brian Maas

A WPS for GTAW, as well as one for GMAW allow both stringer and /or weave passes. Can anyone direct me to any restriction for the widthof a weave pass for either of these two processes, in either AWS or ASME codes?

Your help will be greatly appreciated.
QualityREP
(Studying for CWI July)

D1.1 indicates 'pipe qualifies all box sections and widths' (Table 4.2, note 5). Apparrently D1.1 readers are to assume that "box sections" may be defined as "box tubing". Nowhere has this reader found any AWS definition for the term AWS uses. As D1.1's Table 4.2 column titled "Nominal Diameter of Pipe or Tube Size Qualified..." noteably states "or" as opposed to "and", this leaves the reader wondering if the intent is actually "or" and means that either qualifies the other, that or else whichever one is qualified, 'it' alone is qualified. Suspect that D1.1's intent is that pipe qualifies tube, but possibly not the other way around. Does anyone have definitive insight that may dispel what appears to be an although borderline obscurity, another AWS conundrum ? Regards- steveho