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Parent - - By Johnyutah (**) Date 10-06-2008 02:36
The other thing is that even if your machine burnt some 5/32 for 5 hrs a time or two it won't last trust me.  And  I can speak for anyone that hires rigs we don't want down time on a job because you wanted to save money. I could really care less if a guy is the best welder in the world because we all are right just buy a real machine if you want good work or buy four cheap ones. And one more thing the guy who spent good money and rigs out right deserves in my opinion the work before a guy that is willing to cut corers on his machine.
Parent - - By peters077 (**) Date 10-06-2008 03:09
ok so you are one of those guys that give us all a bad name. You say " lets hire the guy that let his daddy buy him a truck and rig him out even though he wouldnt make a pimple on a welders butt, but his truck looks good in my yard. even if wat he builds breaks on down the line blow and go today let the tool pusher worry about it that way he gets fired for down time not me." that make sme sick. mabey its not cutting corners its just wat he has at this time. I think you should have to take a fitup test and a weld test no matter wat cert. cards you have in your pocket everytime you go to a new place.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-06-2008 04:21 Edited 10-06-2008 04:23
i borrowed a bobcat once cause i wasnt close to my rig to build a round bail buggy and after 8 hours of constant welding 1/8 7018 and 5p it quit got to hot and had to cool off just like a lawn mower does when ya push it to much and my daddy died when i was 16 i paid cash for everything i have so i guess i'm scrwed on gettin a job if your daddy has to buy it for ya huh oh well no biggie i can get by right here at the house until it cools off and then go to brady i'll take a picture of my daddy with me to show cactus maybe that will get me the job and like the others have said buy the big toys and you'll get in the lil machines dont hold up to the big rod i watched a guy goug w a ranger 8 1 day and 4 hours later he was goin home it laid down on him if ya cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch
Parent - - By snuffman (***) Date 10-06-2008 04:24
Go big or go to the house.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-06-2008 04:32
if it aint gray stay away
Parent - By snuffman (***) Date 10-06-2008 04:37
If it aint red and grey throw it away
Parent - - By Johnyutah (**) Date 10-07-2008 01:03
peters077 I am not trying to pick on you just your machine like I said before we are all the best welders in the world. But there is just no possible way you can run with a guy with a good liquid cooled machine if you take this as an insult to yourself wake up. Ask any good rig welder whatever there loyalties and they will say go big or go home cactus and myself won't hire them because of down time and they can't burn big rod thats nothing against the guy behind the hood. Next I am pretty sure guys like Shad cactus and others including myself never took money from dad for our rigs and you are cutting corners by getting a small cheap machine but I'm only the second best welder all the rest are number one LOL.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-07-2008 01:55
I'll be there in the morning to show yall how to run the big rods with my briggs & stratton 225 ac/dc mounted in the trunk of my pinto
Parent - - By Johnyutah (**) Date 10-07-2008 03:31
Shad I think I can one up you this time I have a thermal dynamics that just wont go away hands down the worlds worst engine drive machine made not even worth putting in a pinto. But I'll make you a hell of a deal on it if you get another pinto.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 10-07-2008 03:55
Hello Johnyutah, I know what you are saying about the Thermal dynamics engine drive, the irony there is that they make some really competitive inverters. Sorry to take this off topic a bit but I couldn't resist adding that. Best regards, aevald
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-07-2008 12:06
i could put it in my radio flyer wagon and use it for a back up
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 10-09-2008 23:47
I agree with the Thermal Dynamics engine statement. I never liked the way it welded or provided auxiliary power and wasn't upset when ours just died. Also agree with Allan on the inverter; mine welded great tig and stick until the board went out but it wasn't a new one and it would have cost more to put a new one in that I paid for it.
Parent - - By peters077 (**) Date 10-07-2008 02:04
OK guys STAY CALM I am not saying that a mid size mach. is the only way to go. i was just asking a ? . I love my sa 200 i just got this  bobcat at a auction about 4 months ago it had less than 75 hrs on it and i got it dirt cheap. so far it has ran great. i was just asking wat the big deal was , why every ine hated them so. I am sure that if wat you say is true it wont make it to 1000 hrs. I have never worked in the oil field on a drilling rig or its yard. I have built some big stuff like roller coasters and stuff for big cranes like NORTHWEST new 500 ton they just got. I have just been to alot of the yards around here and i have seen it all from guys with a welder throne in theback of a half ton to guys with ftat bed with ranger 305 all the way to guys with the big 500. most of the guys i see all decked out with 75 to 90k invested i wouldnt let them weld on my little girls red wagon. I AM NOT SAYING THAT ABOUT ANYONE HERE. thats just wat i have been see and wen i go talk the yardboss all i get is " leave me your card and mabey i will call you." I have got some skidds coming up in the next week i am going to try yo put the hurt on the bobcat and se wat it can really do.
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-07-2008 12:04
sorry some o fus took this and ran with and the smaller air cooled engine drives are ok for pipe fence work cattle gaurds and small stuff like that they just can compete with the bigger water cooled jobs i myself have worked with guys that ran the hobarts and 305g's and a couple 305d's(305 d's are water cooled) and the bobarts pc board cant hold up and it's 700 just for the part not counting labor to replace it the bobcats get to got like a lawnmower andhave to cool down you get the idea where a 200 or bigger machine you just pretty much filp the switch push the button and walk away from it til lunch time or quittin time i myself have not had to run the big rods I.E. 1/4 or 7/32 but have no doubt neither of my machines will have any trouble taking the rod and making it look good run with the bigs the samll machine smight for a while but they will not hold up the throttle linkage on the 305's craps out at about 500 hours i've seen thi stoo and the guy waited 3 days for the new part from lincoln and he didnt have a back up machine so like most of us have said go big or go home the guys with the 1/2 trucks and thier rangers,hobarts & bobcats are an insult to us and well theyn just dont hold up a nd most weld bosses know it thats why they are not allowed on alot of jobs and dont even waste your time showing up on a pipeline with anything les than a 200 or a big 40
Parent - - By peters077 (**) Date 10-08-2008 02:50
OK GUYS, I am sooory for even bringing it up. I got really pissy last nite and put the bobcat on my truck and took it in this mornin. i worked an 18 hr day it got shut off at lunch for 30 min. OH AND JUST SO THAT YOU KNOW CACTUS IT WILL BURN AND RUN 7/32 7024. IT DID IT BUT IT REALLY DID NOT LIKE IT. i only ran 5 of them though. i think you are right if i tryed to do that all day i am sure there would be a big boom and a cloud of smoke coming from the back of my truck. but back to were i was going with this i was running 3/16 7018 and 7024 all day and YES YOUALL WERE RIGHT. by the end of the day it was making a very strange humming noice at low idle. so i am sure that it will not last. i was so impressed with how well it ran with the smaller rods all day and with the price of it that i gave it to much credit. I have a nother long day tomorrow i am going to run it again and see wat happens i may be teking it to the scrap bin by the end of the week not sure. How do you guys feel about keeping something like this for a back up if your BIG welder has to go in the shop for a little

SO I ASK FORGEVNESS FROM THE WELDING GODS FOR EVEN SPEAKING OF THIS NONSENCE. all you have to do is speak of a small mach ever so lightly and BAM everyone is pissed, that is the way i felt wen i went to a couple of yards and saw the small trucks with the small mach and gt turned away

FOR ALL OF YOU THAT DID NOT GET IT THE PREHEAT ? WAS A HUGE JOKE. THAT IF IT WAS REALLY HOT THAT EVEN IF THE BOBCAT DID NOT DO SUCH A GOOD JOB BURNING THE ROD  IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IT DID A BETTER JOB THAT IT REALLY DID.
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-08-2008 07:30
nobody got mad we were just trying to get you to understand us and now you do and expensive lesson but now you know what we mean and if your running a big machine get 1 for a back up up until sunday i had 4 machines now i'm down to 3 all 200's nothing smaller than that will come thru the gate
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 10-08-2008 02:34
I have about 90k invested in my rig. I dont weld wagons ! Especially little red ones
Parent - - By peters077 (**) Date 10-08-2008 02:52
WHAT , DO YOU HAVE SOME THING AGAINST THINGS MADE IN AMERICA???????????
Parent - By peters077 (**) Date 10-08-2008 02:57
just messing with you cactus. but will you come fix my fence i cant get my welder to run right the rod thingy keeps falling out of the big clamp dohicky and the little clamp thingy isnt big enough to grab ahold of the pipe.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-05-2008 03:21
Hello peters077, you have already been given plenty of good information about your topic. I would only add one additional item for your consideration. I believe welding machine ratings follow some of the same sorts of ratings that are seen in the automotive industry. Here are the examples that I might throw out there for you. Many times you may have seen horsepower rating claims for various cars/trucks. Some are based upon horsepower measured at the flywheel, others at the rear tires. What I'm driving at here might go like this: the air-cooled machines might be considered as the ones that have been rated at the flywheel, the water-cooled ones, in particular the machines like the SA 200's, could be considered the ones that have been rated at the rear wheels. In actuality the machines such as the SA 200 really are capable of greater delivery than the ratings would imply and the air-cooled ones are rated pretty close to the ragged edge. Somebody mentioned using a carbon arc torch, I wouldn't hesitate to use an SA200 to run one, I wouldn't recommend doing that with one of the air-cooled machines unless I had some deep pockets or replacement insurance. Just my personal opinion, however I would venture to say I've got a few others out there who would share my idea. Best regards, aevald
Parent - By Macc53 (*) Date 10-05-2008 03:38
I my self think there is some very nice Air cooled welders out there the miller trailblazer 302g is rated very high. When I had mine i would air arc with it and run leads a long ass ways to get to pump stations and never had any trouble with it.

I do have to agree that bigger water cooled welders will in the long run deliver better welds. Plus you dont have to listen to the screeming motor all day. Most the big water cooled welders run at a low rpm.

Macc
Parent - - By gshuma (**) Date 10-05-2008 23:25
The air cooled machines all develop HP at a high RPM and are almost maxed out. They may run OK but if you are welding day in and day out you will want something that turns at 1/2 that speed.
I got a little Toyota that will pull a 5 ton trailer at 60 MPH.I just have to keep it in 2nd gear. Same with a welder.
Parent - - By millerman (**) Date 10-06-2008 02:19
well i would have to disagree with ya there have  302 t/b  and it would flat weld and stay up with any sa 200 but with that being said i would not try to weld 12 hrs a day for months not because its high rpm just that a liquid cooled would last longer , but 1800 or 3600 rpm is not a issue
just my 2 cents
mac
Parent - - By nevadanick (**) Date 10-08-2008 02:25
I have a 2004 model trailblazer and it Will Not hang with my sa-250, not even close.
Parent - - By millerman (**) Date 10-08-2008 19:51
my sa 200 is a 65 red face in a short frame and it welds great but the t/b with the dig control will really run p5 quick  the 200 will to just does it  with less fuel use  the t/b is 07
Thanks
mac
Parent - By nevadanick (**) Date 10-09-2008 02:06
ok, yeah im not a pipe welder, but i do understand.   I do alot of 7018 and carbon arcing on heavy equipment (the company i work for still loves stick) and have not had the best luck with the tb on my truck,  i personally have a sa 250 thats awsome. 
Parent - - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 10-05-2008 03:42
some rig yards dont care. some do. I have even seen welding bosses say "IF you got a Miller,,,,stay home." It all has to do with who you are welding for. I have had no problem showing up with a sa 200 or 300d or vantage. I welded last year with a Ranger GXT...got along great welding 5/32 jet and 5/32 7018. I didnt do it everyday but at least 5 days a week. The mindset of alot of rodbosses...."bigger is better".
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-05-2008 05:18
Just a quick question, how much lead did you have strung out?

I wonder if the equation I based my reply on is valid for inverters? I would think so, but until I dig a bit further and thinking back, I believe that formula was for transformer type welding machines. I may be eating some crow here folks! Stay tuned!

Hey, I have to get going. I have a plane to Las Vegas in the morning. I may not get up in time if I stay any longer.

Anyone going to Las Vegas? I'm staying in the Renaissance Hotel under the name Al Moore. I hope he doesn't get drift of it! If your out there, leave me a message at the hotel.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By TozziWelding (**) Date 10-05-2008 14:20 Edited 10-05-2008 14:32
I have a Trailblazer 301 on my truck at all times, it is m all pourpous welder, wire, TIG, stick, etc.... It is a good all around welder. But, when I need to run the big sticks, or do heavy duty arcairing out comes the big Lincoln. The big girl runs at low rpm's and will just keep making amps till I ask her to stop. If I was in pipeline/oilfield land the Lincoln would live on the truck full time, but I do equipment repairs, structural jobs, and everything else, the TB just fits me better day to day. Each machine has it's place, you don't use a Crescent wrench when you need a Phillips head screwdriver. 
Parent - - By vagabond (***) Date 10-05-2008 15:04
From my experience it has to do with voltage ratings and the duty cycle of the machine.  It seems as though all pipeline work they really want you to have a Lincoln 200 or 250.  When I was in Bakersfield in the oil patch and plant maintenance guys had all kinds of machines and set-ups (trailers etc.)  Everyone also has their own personal preferences.  If it is an electric machine an a shop 4pk., 8pk., etc.  if I'm involved in the purchasing process I'll buy Millers all day long.  If it's a generator outdoors machine I'm going with Lincoln,  years ago at Prudhoe Bay in Alaska they brought in a bunch of Miller Big 40's on a job I was involved in and with 4 weeks they were all replaced with Lincoln Classics.  They didn't seem to be able to hold up in the conditions we were using them in.  Not enough electric for a light etc.  Most places I've worked on the North Slope they use Lincolns and they drive Ford trucks.  That is my basis for using Lincolns and yeah for driving Ford trucks although I do really like the Cummins motors.
Parent - By nevadanick (**) Date 10-05-2008 20:29
I have a newer kohler powered trailblazer that is rated at 300 amps at 100 % on my service truck  as im a field mech for a const co.,   I also have my personal machine a 89 SA250 with the perkins which is rated at 250 amps at 60 %.
With the miller i can actually overheat it and trip the thermal protection in 3 or 4 hrs if im going for it. even with just running like 5/32 7018 after about 4 hrs the things overheating, running carbon you get about an hour then the power just isnt there unless you stop and let it cool.
The SA just runs and runs
I think the trailblazer is a great machine and it acutally has a really nice arc,  i personally just havent had the best luck when i have to use it for any amount of time.
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 10-05-2008 18:22
Have fun In Vegas Al, I tried to schedule my honeymoon for the show, but she wasn't having none of that! :)
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 10-05-2008 19:59
I was gonna go but alas the life of a college kid... I ran out of money buying books.  Several of my classmates will be there, some will be competing too I believe
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 10-05-2008 20:24
can I play, I might not have enough machine To run with the big dog though
Attachment: DSCF0016.JPG (0B)
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 10-05-2008 20:49
Hey  have you seen the new 500 in a 300 frame ?
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 10-05-2008 21:04
No I have not , I think I am the only welder in Mi that has a vantage any way!
Plus I just found out two weeks ago that lincoln is not putting the cummins engine in there big machines any more. I love mine cummins, I was the last year to get one in a 500
Parent - - By weaver (***) Date 10-05-2008 22:27
where are you working in michigan?
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 10-05-2008 23:20
tri county area.
I am a go where the work is kinda of guy but there is not a lot around here thank god I own 3 other biz's to keep my afloat
Parent - - By Johnyutah (**) Date 10-06-2008 02:50
Vantage man I just bought a 500 out of Vegas have you had any problems with you machine.
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 10-06-2008 12:38
No not one problem to date I love it and It get great hours on a tank of fuel
Parent - By Johnyutah (**) Date 10-07-2008 01:08
Thats good since I have only ran classic 300d's for the last few years the machine sound great but there is no way its going to fit on my truck.
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 10-05-2008 22:49
From what I understand the new 500 in the 300 frame has a turbo cummins in it I will look at the data sheet tommorrow. The Lincoln Rep brought me a sheet on it. They will have it at the Permian Basin Oil Show in Odessa. They told me they would bring it out to my yard and let us play with it for a couple of weeks after the show. I will let you know how it runs. The generator is a  25k
Parent - - By SMTatham (**) Date 10-05-2008 23:50
Cactus, the small frame 500 has a Perkins.  Weighs about 1500.  Cummins is not "currently" a choice due to emissions certs.  They are still going in some export machines; according to the rep. here in Denver.
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 10-06-2008 02:20
I didnt remember I just want a 500 in a smaller frame. Mainly just to say  "My welder can beat up your welder" !
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-06-2008 13:27
i'm gonna have to get a bigger motor for my ac/dc 225 to compete with you aint i
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-06-2008 13:28
i'll jus rig up a pulley and run it off the truck yeah thats it beat that lol
Parent - By JescoPressure (**) Date 10-09-2008 01:17
i got the sheet a couple months ago, it's pretty sweet . Continental in Edmonton  said theyll have one up here pretty quick.
Parent - - By jake steel (*) Date 10-07-2008 03:55
hey vantage man what year is your vantage i bought a 500 its coming up from Las Vegas and its a 07 i really hope it has a cummins in it that would be fantastic any ways i am wondering the size compares to the new 400 and the 07 500 like you said might not be enough machine
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 10-07-2008 12:11
It was either late 06 or feb of 07 not 100% sure but in that time frame.
I ordered mine with the cummins but they had the two other engines to chose from at that time too
Parent - By jake steel (*) Date 10-08-2008 03:08
ye the kabota and the perkins is you vantage the same size as the newer ones i heard that they are bigger than the new ones which are the same size as the 300 and 400s
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / I AM LOST???????
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