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- - By stickwelder (*) Date 10-29-2009 02:34
I am needing an ASME code book. I recently obtained CWI testing to D1.1, but am needing to perform some testing to ASME on6" sch. 40 with SMAW. Downhill 5p root and hot, with 3/32" 7018 uphill face.
I was not impressed with the costs of these new, was hoping someone had one they no longer needed.

Just need the Section nine, i believe it is? that addresses welder qualification. I am not inspecting work, just qualifying welders.

I know the specs for the visuals and bend tests on the test that we are using, but just don't feel right without the code in my hand.
Probably i will find that i in fact didn't know as much as i thought once i get the code.

What edition do you have and how much to part with it?
Parent - By awscwi1 Date 10-29-2009 12:41
I have one that I would part with.You can contact me at dwright@zpi.com.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-29-2009 12:46 Edited 10-29-2009 12:49
I don't know if you took the AWS CWI seminar in preparation for the CWI examinations or if you took a course from someone else, but if you should have learned anything it is that you need to have a copy of the applicable code. Not only do you need a copy of the applicable code, but it has to be the right edition.

Any CWI that wants to work in this field has to know that purchasing relevant codes and specifications is part of the job, part of your responsibility as an inspector.

I find it distressing that a CWI, young or old, inexperienced or seasoned would ask if someone could give him an "old copy" of a code.

My advice is to ante up and buy the code you need or find a different line of work. You can't do the work without the proper tools. Did you borrow a welding hood every time you went to work as a welder?

Whether you are impressed by the cost or not, the cost of working in this industry includes recognition that it is not inexpensive to maintain a library of all the standards, specifications, recommended practices and codes that are applicable to the work you do. Not only do you need to purchase the relevant books, but you also will need to attend training courses to teach you how to read and apply the code requirements.

A few evening courses at the local community college can be one of the best investments you can make. Courses in English, Composition, Metallurgy, NDT, etc. are available at many of the local colleges. None of it is free, but then again, I assume you are charging for your services. Your clients expect to be paying you because you know what has to be done, how to do it, and none of us are born knowing everything. We have to continue to educate ourselves. The CWI is the beginning, not the end of our education.

One advantage of working for an inspection agency is the employer should provide the inspector with the relevant documents. If the inspector wants work as a lone wolf, he is responsible to make sure he knows what he is doing and buy the damn books needed to do the job right.

I spend no less than $2000/year on books. I have codes and specifications everywhere in my house. One bedroom was converted into a library with bookshelves floor to ceiling on three walls. My office has book shelves on all four walls containing all the relevant codes, standards, specifications, and recommended practices I need to work in all the various industrial sectors. It is no minor investment. Welders buy welding machines, torches, saws, drill presses, trucks, etc. They invest money in equipment. The inspector has to invest in books of all kinds if he wants to be anything more than a wanabe inspector. The multitude of books received at the AWS seminar is only the beginning, not the end of what is needed to be a fully functional inspector. It is a cost of doing business and you have to include the cost of maintaining a library in your pricing. When a job comes along that requires me to purchase a different code than what I already have, the cost of the reference is figured into the job.

I won't lie and tell you that I purchased all of them at one time, but I will say that when the need arose I purchased the books I needed to do my work and I attended many seminars relating to steel construction, welding, and inspection. Join AISC if you inspect steel. Join ASNT if you want to perform NDT. I would hope I don't have to tell you to join AWS if you are already a CWI.

I need a cup of tea and time to cool down a bit. That vein in my forehead is about to burst!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-29-2009 13:05
Well stated Al
Parent - By Ke1thk (**) Date 10-29-2009 14:02
Wow! Al's right.  I ask a lot of questions in our forum but they're usually because I'm not sure of what I'm reading.  I do have the Codes.

A CWI has to buy (or have), read (I have to read a new Code or Spec, take notes, and maybe re-read it), and understand the Code.  Spend the cash or pass on the job.

Good luck,

Keith
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 10-29-2009 14:33
So Al,
Are you saying that you have the old rev of the code available to assist the original poster?  :)

Send check or money order to Al Moore PO Box 803056 New England USA
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-29-2009 16:39
ROTFLMFAO!!! :) :) :) And send Cash only because money talks and you know what walks!!! :) :) :)
HEE-HEE-HEE-HEE-HEE-HEE!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-30-2009 21:17
Everyone likes a little ass, but no one likes a smart ass! ;)

All donations gratefully accepted.

I hope all your activity is a sign that you are feeling better Henry.

We just survived the Swine Flu. It went through one set of three grandchildren and now it has started with the next set of three. My wife and I have had it with no major issues. It seems to be of fairly short duration, only a couple of days; one with a fever, one day of just wanting to lie around doing nothing (not that unusual), but then there are several days where you don't feel tip-top, but it isn't debilitating. 

Henry, if you are taking a bunch of medications for your condition you might want to watch yourself. Wipe down your keyboard with disinfectant just in case some of my germs make it through the lines. I scanned my messages for viruses but you just never know!

Best regards - Al
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-30-2009 21:54
Hi Al!

I thought You would get a chuckle out of those remarks!!! :) :) :)

I'm currently not allowed to go back to teaching until my Doctor gets the Swine Flu vaccine so, I've been virtually stuck here in my apartment basically avoiding exposure to the outside as much as possible... Sort of like being under quarantine in a sense until the vaccine arrives so, I've been keeping myself busy, and basically keeping ti off my mind so I don't have to worry about it! It seems to be working so far which is a good thing, but I need to be moving around and interacting with the students so the meds circulate better throughout my body because, this lull in physical activity has taken it's toll on my body already as my ankles have already have started to swell again...

I cannot wait to be moving around again like I was before... I would go to the gym @ the YMCA but, the virus is probably lurking in there also so, I'm stuck here @ home until the "cavalry arrives!!!" I've got masks and all sorts of protective stuff, but since I'm immuno-suppressed Al, I cannot take any chances that people with normal immune systems can, so it's a catch 22 situation for sure!!!

Anywho, thanks for caring!!! You have always been a good friend Al! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-29-2009 16:41
Al gets a hardy AMEN from me.

This is not a 'Cheap & Easy' career choice.  I probably bought a lot more books than I needed before taking the CWI.  Even the ones that were to be given out 'free' at the seminar.  But I got them, read them, and read them again before going to the seminar.  Passed the test.  Then started buying a lot more.  Thankfully, got linked up with a pretty good guy that has inspected for about 20 years.  He gave me a lot of advice, lists of needed materials for the exact type of jobs we were/are doing (tools as well as books and codes), and has coached me through a lot that is over and above just taking the CWI exam.  I enjoy inspecting.  I would encourage others to get into it.

But,  It Is Not For Those Who Don't Want To Spend Money.   If you have been hired to test welders to a particular code, you should have the newest edition of that code available to document the procedures you used to monitor and perform the tests and fill out the reports.

I'm also for saving money.  If you wanted to ask for a current but unneeded copy of the code, go for it.  But the way you stated your request, you could end up with a 10-20 year old copy that really wouldn't do you or your customer any justice.

Hope that all the advice given is taken as constructive criticism.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By paul prill (*) Date 10-30-2009 11:19
Al hit the nail on the head again!!!!!!
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-30-2009 14:25
Just a quick word of warning to those people new to working with ASME Section IX.

The ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code is comprised of many sections, each dealing with different aspects of the construction of, you know it, boilers and pressure vessels. There are several pressure piping codes that are also interrelated to the B&PV Code. The code sections are not self sustaining, that is, they are interrelated and intertwined. This is the case when working with Section IX, it is not self sustaining. It depends on other code sections to be complete.

Consultants that only comply with the requirements of Section IX are only doing half their job. Welding procedures and welders qualified to the requirements of ASME have to comply with the requirements of the applicable construction code as well as Section IX. Some of the construction codes modify the requirements listed in Section IX. For example, if the welder is going to be welding on a "high pressure" piping system in accordance with B31.3, he has to be qualified using bend tests, i.e., qualification samples evaluated by radiography are not permitted. Likewise, the use of backing and socket type fittings are not permitted or are restricted. The applicable construction code will stipulate when notch toughness testing is required, it will not be found in Section IX.

The bottom line is that the laboratory or inspector that wants to work with clients engaged in ASME work must have copies of the applicable code sections to be familiar with the ins and outs of ASME and what is or isn't permitted when testing the welder, qualifying the procedure, or developing the WPS.

Oops, the price of qualifying that procedure or welder just went up when you discovered you need to purchase another code section for about $500 didn't it.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Fhahim987 Date 10-30-2009 20:27
[deleted]
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-30-2009 21:07
And your point is?

Al
Parent - - By stickwelder (*) Date 10-31-2009 02:08
Wow, what confusion?
I have not replied, as i have been working, (I too am an instructor) all day, and at class (finishing my degree this semester) all night.
Just got home. I must say, either i did not state my need well enough, or some did not read it well enough.
I too have thousands of dollars in tools invested in this business. Three machines in the garage. Big blue, diesel-nice welder. A little ranger, fantastic generator for the house, and a little idealarc for the hobby tig work. Plenty of $ in torches blah, blah blah. continual purchase process.

I was not asking for a handout. I have paid for everything i have including my CWI, prep books and course and that college i spoke of.(also all of those expensive textbooks that are part of it.) I am new to the CWI world. I do not work as a CWI, and have no immediate plans to.
It was the next step on the resume. Maybe someday i will work as an inspector, but not now. I do however, on occasion get the oppurtunity to test a welder for a couple of extra bucks. This is the first time i will have tested a welder to ASME. I tested to, and am more familiar with d1.1. I know that i have a new copy of API 1104 that is useless to me that i would sell if someone needed it, so i thought the same could be true for ASME. I purchased API for CWI testing, and decided I was more familiar with AWS. Good thing probably because i scored a 92 on the code. I will likely never do anything with that API other than read for entertainment.

I am not asking for someone to "give" me anything. Note that i did ask what edition and how much. Perhaps i instead should have said, new edition only, and how much? I would not test without the code. I did, however point out that i was already aware of the acceptance criteria, but need a copy in hand. The reason i stated this was to avoid some smartalic saying "you should already know that if you are a CWI." Perhaps others have tested enough, that they do not need to have this in hand? I do need it. I tested to this same procedure myself and question that all of the information on my own qual. papers are correct. I will not be writing WPS to ASME, and will not be doing any NDT or VT on the job. My limited knowledge of this code is that Section 9 contains all necessary info for welder qual. so that was the book i was looking for. If this information is incorrect, maybe you could educate me regarding the necessary materials for overseeing this testing. Again i do not claim to be an ASME expert, it is not my background. If i can perform welder qual. tests on the side to make a couple of bucks, there is nothing wrong with that. That is part of why i took the test. If my career were in inspection i would purchase $2000.00 of books. Maybe someday the need will arise. I can however tell you that i know for a fact that i am more thorough and accurate than other CWI's i have worked with, including those that have tested me. It is my intention to be accurate and ethical.

Feel free to comment on my limited knowledge on this test. Perhaps i am correct, perhaps not. (thats why i need the code)
6" sch. 40-SMAW

0-1/8" root opening       0-1/8" root face
Root-complete fusion, complete penetration-0-1/8", no blowthrough no suckback
Face-uniform appearance, gradual trasition at the toe. No undercut exceeding 1/32" total amount of undercut no more than 2" in 12" of weld.
No porosity, no underfill. Max face reinforcemtn 1/8".

Bend specs. 1" wide bend tests, face bends centered at 1:30 adn 7:30. Root bends oppisite.
Acceptance crit.-no flaws over 1/8" in lenth in max direction. Total lengths of flaws under 3/8". Corner cracks same as D1.1?

This is off the top of my head with no code to back it up. Probably close, with some inaccuracies. I will know once the book is in hand.

Let the vein in the forehead relax. I think you may have jumped your blood pressure unnecessarily, then again maybe you disagree.
I will say that i do read these posts for hours. I never post. I have learned a great deal reading these posts. Al, i would say that having never spoken with you i do respect your knowledge. I do not have the same experience level with inspection and have learned specifically from some of your posts and personal knowledge/experience. The reason i do not tend to post is that i do not want to get caught up in one the hangings that takes place in this forum. I probably shouldn't have made this one? I hope i didn't offend anyone, as this was not my intention-only to better explain my situation. I can benefit from adn appreciate advise, as I am new to inspection. I do also believe that education is a continual process. Thats all i do-teach, grade, repair, go to class, study, test-on and on all week every week, on both sides-teacher and student. When i took the AWS prep class, i only slept two nights that week. I read that stack of books over and over. I read D1.1 cover to cover 7 times that week not to mention the practice quizzes, WIT etc.

I expect to purchase the book, adn will. Hopefully cheaper from someone who doesn't really use it. Otherwise i will have to suck it up and buy a new one. I was attacked as though i expect to get something for nothing, or i expect to work with no tools which neither is accurate.

Best Regards to you fine gentlemen.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 02:59 Edited 10-31-2009 12:40
Look stickwelder!

First off, get your story straight because you're the one causing all the confusion around here!!! Ohhh!!! You don't agree??? Well then, why in SAM HILL did you first write this which I copied and pasted off your last post just in case you decide to edit your post:

"I know that i have a new copy of API 1104 that is useless to me that i would sell if someone needed it, so i thought the same could be true for ASME. I purchased API for CWI testing, and decided I was more familiar with AWS. Good thing probably because i scored a 92 on the code. I will likely never do anything with that API other than read for entertainment."

Then you have the audacity to write this in the same post (Which I also copied and pasted just in case)??? what do you take us for ??? Get your story straight and go cough up the money for ASME Section IX and the other books you'll need as well!!! THat's whay Al is pizzed at people like yourself... It's because you cannot even keep your story straight for cryin out loud!!! And you teach???

"When i took the AWS prep class, i only slept two nights that week. I read that stack of books over and over. I read D1.1 cover to cover 7 times that week not to mention the practice quizzes, WIT etc."

Stop your Male Bovine Excrement and cough up the money to buy what you need and stop lying to everyone about your circumstances already!!!

Most of all, STOP YOUR WHINING ABOUT NOTHING!!! I also teach, and when I need a code book or reference standard, I either request it for where I teach, or buy one for my own personal gain, and strongly suggest that you do the same!!! ROTFLMFAO!!! :) :) :)

Henry
Parent - - By stickwelder (*) Date 10-31-2009 03:13
You are truly ignorant. I explained the circumstances just as they are. There was no lie. I purchased a copy of API to prepare for testing. I had an old copy of d1.1. After studying both, i determined i was better off with the AWS, so thats what i tested to. Got the new edition at the seminar, studied and read and passed. The API has not been opened since before the seminar. There is "whining about nothing"?
1. I need the book.
2. What is the cheapest way of aquiring it? Obviously if there is one avaliable used it would be cheaper. If there is not, new is the only option avaliable.

What is the lie you speak of? What part of the post is not straight? It would appear that the only thing not straight, is your reading comprehension. Reread my previous comment and when you can comprehend get back with me.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 03:46 Edited 10-31-2009 12:39
You are too funny... The only problem is I'm not laughing at all!!! Let's face it already... You're wrong and that's all there is to it. You got caught with your pants on fire and now you're too proud to admit that you got caught writing one thing in one paragraph within the same post, only to write something else in the same post later that totally contradicts what you wrote in the previous paragraph!!! If you do not know how to write, then how can I expect you to comprehend what I just wrote, or what I wrote in my previous post either and it most definitely shows!!! Stop it already because you're making yourself look real silly with your double talk already!!! You don't agree with me??? It's alright, your denial is getting the best of you and you don't seem to know how ot react, so you resort to being totally oblivious to what you wrote, and words do not mean one thing one minute, then spontaneously mean another in the next, so please do not embarrass yourself any further - CAPECHE??? ROTFLMFAO!!! :) :) :)

Henry
Parent - - By stickwelder (*) Date 10-31-2009 03:59
Still can't explain what "is not straight" or what "lie" huh? That figures. I have read enough of your crap on this forum to easily see that you look to provoke whatever you can, get mad and can't even explain what it is that you are trying to argue. You have  been given an oppurtunity to explain your point and failed as you typically do. You resort to insults due to the fact that you have a limited ability to think once upset. As soon as someone disagrees, you immediately lose all capabilities of thinking clearly. Life must be a dream for the poor individuals who have to deal with you on a regular basis.

If you can prove your point, maybe i will reply. Up to this point, you have just entertained me with your inability to communicate effectively.
I posted to purchase a book, not babysit you.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 04:25 Edited 10-31-2009 12:39
Now you're showing your true colors eh? Touched a nerve huh? I thought so!!! :) :) :)
All of a sudden you can articulate your writing as eloquently as someone who in a previous thread had a hard time communicating what he actually meant to say!!! Amazing how all of a sudden you decide to sound as if you're the righteous one!!! YEAH RIGHT!!! Please do not patronize us with any more of your Male Bovine Excrement!!! You really ought to look at what you write more carefully because it's really becoming pathetic!!! :) :) :)

I already proven to you as well as everyone else in here that you're not credible in your words already!!! If you choose to deny it, that's your perogative, and I cannot control that nor would I even try to if I could because I do not need to!!! You said it all in your previous posts!!! I do not need to repeat myself any further - PERIOD!!!
CASE CLOSED!!! :) :) :) ROTFLMFAO!!! :) :) :)

Henry
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 05:17 Edited 10-31-2009 05:22
An old wise man named Richard Schick of the famous family name who just so happened to be the black sheep of his otherwise illustrious family once told me this and I'll never forget it!!! He said: "Look here Henry!!! When you decide to write something, whether it is on a black board, or in a book... You need to Write Exactly what you Mean, and Mean Exactly what you Write in order to avoid being misunderstood at all!!! And if anyone questions you of your integrity, you can always refer to what you previously wrote!"

Dick Schick was probably one of the best Tool & die maker/ Machine Tools Specialists around during his time and during his funeral, he was even shown respect by the very same ATF agents that finally bought him to justice in his early years as one of the best counterfeiters they ever had the pleasure to hunt down and capture when they came to not only show their respects to him, but to also eulogize him at his funeral!!! R.I.P. Dick!!!

Why do I mention his name?? This man taught me more than anyone about how one needs to find their humility by being honest with themselves so that they can be honest with everyone else and earn their respect by doing so!!! This all was taught to me when I was once down and out after I found myself at rock bottom when I once thought I was invincible and without any shame at all... I slowly, but surely regained my own self respect as a man because I became honest with myself, and took his advice to use when I did my own inventory for the first time!!! I still do it every year to this day, and I'm not perfect by any stretch of my own imagination nor do I need to be because after all, I'm only human. ;)

However, these days I can sleep well in knowing that I am honest with myself, and honest with everyone else I know which is a whole lot better than I was when I first decided to become honest with myself!!! Why am I writing all of this you ask??? I'm writing this in the hopes that you too can possibly try this as well on yourself, and maybe, just maybe - feel better about yourself one day!!! In the mean time, if you want to continue with your own denial, that is your choice as well. That's it! I'm done here, so say what you want and respond as you will if it makes you feel better for now, but when it's time to meet your maker and you're asked to answer for you sins, I hope you can talk your way out of that conversation!!! ;) I know that I can answer for mine with all honesty right now as well as when I meet my maker!!! ;) ;) ;)

Henry
Parent - - By stickwelder (*) Date 10-31-2009 06:34
I will be sure to ask for forgiveness from the almighty for not being able to help you out more with your little disability. Seeing as how you were never able to give one single example of an inaccurate statement, lie or any of your other accusations, i believe i am done with you.
Next time you go off on one of your little tangents, please be specific and sight what it is that you have a issue with, not just generalizing statements about a person is a liar and whatever else you claimed. This way if i made a mistake, i can learn from it. Had you been able to point out this supposed inaccuracy and i were at fault, i would gladly man up and apoligize. I am sorry you failed to do so.

No one ever asked for your life lessons or advise, but i was very intrigued to hear about your integrity, honesty and such.
Thanks for your effort and extensive knowledge on integrity, you probably don't know what it means to me.lol

I too make mistakes, and have no problem owning up to them. Had you cited a legimate mistake, i would have. It's been fun!
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 11:08 Edited 10-31-2009 12:38
So you're still not convinced??? well then, Here it is once again in plain colors for everyone and anyone to see!!! :) :) :) You sure that you want to keep this going??? Because I can copy and paste the original post I made with all the evidence necessary to convince anyone and everyone that you are what this says you are stickwelder... I mean, these are your words, not mine!!! ;) ;) ;) I already gave you a chance to clarify yourself and so far, you've done a terrible job of doing so with your remarks, so it's on you to convince me and everyone else with something more plausible than what you have attempted so far!!!

ssbn727 (****) Date 10-30-2009 22:59

Look stickwelder!

First off, get your story straight because you're the one causing all the confusion around here!!! Ohhh!!! You don't agree??? Well then, why in SAM HILL did you first write this which I copied and pasted off your last post just in case you decide to edit your post:

"I know that i have a new copy of API 1104 that is useless to me that i would sell if someone needed it, so i thought the same could be true for ASME. I purchased API for CWI testing, and decided I was more familiar with AWS. Good thing probably because i scored a 92 on the code. I will likely never do anything with that API other than read for entertainment."

Then you have the audacity to write this in the same post (Which I also copied and pasted just in case)??? what do you take us for ??? Get your story straight and go cough up the money for ASME Section IX and the other books you'll need as well!!! THat's whay Al is pizzed at people like yourself... It's because you cannot even keep your story straight for cryin out loud!!! And you teach???

"When i took the AWS prep class, i only slept two nights that week. I read that stack of books over and over. I read D1.1 cover to cover 7 times that week not to mention the practice quizzes, WIT etc."

Stop your Male Bovine Excrement and cough up the money to buy what you need and stop lying to everyone about your circumstances already!!!

Most of all, STOP YOUR WHINING ABOUT NOTHING!!! I also teach, and when I need a code book or reference standard, I either request it for where I teach, or buy one for my own personal gain, and strongly suggest that you do the same!!! ROTFLMFAO!!! :) :) :)

Henry
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 11:13 Edited 10-31-2009 12:38
If this isn't clear enough, then go see your eye doctor!!!

ssbn727 (****) Date 10-30-2009 22:59

Look stickwelder!

First off, get your story straight because you're the one causing all the confusion around here!!! Ohhh!!! You don't agree??? Well then, why in SAM HILL did you first write this which I copied and pasted off your last post just in case you decide to edit your post:

"I know that i have a new copy of API 1104 that is useless to me that i would sell if someone needed it, so i thought the same could be true for ASME. I purchased API for CWI testing, and decided I was more familiar with AWS. Good thing probably because i scored a 92 on the code. I will likely never do anything with that API other than read for entertainment."

Then you have the audacity to write this in the same post (Which I also copied and pasted just in case)??? what do you take us for ??? Get your story straight and go cough up the money for ASME Section IX and the other books you'll need as well!!! THat's whay Al is pizzed at people like yourself... It's because you cannot even keep your story straight for cryin out loud!!! And you teach???

"When i took the AWS prep class, i only slept two nights that week. I read that stack of books over and over. I read D1.1 cover to cover 7 times that week not to mention the practice quizzes, WIT etc."

Stop your Male Bovine Excrement and cough up the money to buy what you need and stop lying to everyone about your circumstances already!!!

Most of all, STOP YOUR WHINING ABOUT NOTHING!!! I also teach, and when I need a code book or reference standard, I either request it for where I teach, or buy one for my own personal gain, and strongly suggest that you do the same!!! ROTFLMFAO!!! :) :) :)

Henry
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 11:14 Edited 10-31-2009 12:37
Look stickwelder!

First off, get your story straight because you're the one causing all the confusion around here!!! Ohhh!!! You don't agree??? Well then, why in SAM HILL did you first write this which I copied and pasted off your last post just in case you decide to edit your post:

"I know that i have a new copy of API 1104 that is useless to me that i would sell if someone needed it, so i thought the same could be true for ASME. I purchased API for CWI testing, and decided I was more familiar with AWS. Good thing probably because i scored a 92 on the code. I will likely never do anything with that API other than read for entertainment."

Then you have the audacity to write this in the same post (Which I also copied and pasted just in case)??? what do you take us for ??? Get your story straight and go cough up the money for ASME Section IX and the other books you'll need as well!!! THat's whay Al is pizzed at people like yourself... It's because you cannot even keep your story straight for cryin out loud!!! And you teach???

"When i took the AWS prep class, i only slept two nights that week. I read that stack of books over and over. I read D1.1 cover to cover 7 times that week not to mention the practice quizzes, WIT etc."

Stop your Male Bovine Excrement and cough up the money to buy what you need and stop lying to everyone about your circumstances already!!!

Most of all, STOP YOUR WHINING ABOUT NOTHING!!! I also teach, and when I need a code book or reference standard, I either request it for where I teach, or buy one for my own personal gain, and strongly suggest that you do the same!!! ROTFLMFAO!!! :) :) :)
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-31-2009 14:17
How bout you two guys agree to delete this whole tiresome line of bickering!

Nobody cares who is right

Let's start over on another technical subject like it all never happened.

We are here for enjoyment guys..

Please don't tell me you enjoy this.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 02:42
He's a spammer Al! Just look at what he's plugging with the blue fonts which if you click, will send you probably to a spam site that will load your computer with a possible virus or a trojan type that will lie dormant until just the right moment, so DO NOT CLICK THE BLUE WRITING!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 03:48
Anyone posting those type links you mention Henry is having their posts removed <period> so to any of you out there who are adding this type information intentionally, knock it off!
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 04:10
Thanks Gentlemen;

I didn't go to the links he listed. I rarely do unless I know the individual and I trust that person providing the links.

The Jerk should be permanently banned from this Forum.

Al
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 05:00 Edited 10-31-2009 05:16
Hello Stickwelder;

My intent wasn't intended to offend you, just to emphasize the need to have the references required to do the job right.

Any CWI, you, me, or any other CWI, should be using the latest edition of the applicable welding standard unless the client specifically requests an earlier edition when qualifying welders.

None of us memorize every code that we use, nor should we. For that simple reason we need to maintain a library of references that are applicable to our “trade”. They are our tools. If you do have the code memorized I will buy the coffee the next time we meet.

Did I come down a little too hard? Perhaps my response seemed to be an attack on you, but it wasn’t intended as such. However there was a reason for being blunt. I encounter far too many CWIs that believe they can function as a productive inspector without resorting to using the proper references. They look like amateurs and it reflects poorly on all CWIs. Believe me; I am regaled with tales of the “Dummy Inspector” all too often. I find it difficult not to side with the fabricator that tells the tale of the inspector that doesn't have a copy of the relevant code and doesn’t even know the color of the cover.

Bear in mind you are expected to be a professional if you undertake CWI work as a part time endeavor or as a full time position. This isn’t amateur hour and I have little sympathy for any CWI that doesn’t approach this work as a true professional.

Remember, the tone of the responses you receive is often predicated by the tone of the question. If the response is harsh, there is usually a reason for it being so. My response in this case was intended to make it very clear that you have a responsibility to your client to do your job in a professional manner using the appropriate reference (not one that is out dated). As a CWI you are held to a high standard by this community as well as your clients. 

You will learn things in this Forum that you won’t learn at any AWS CWI seminar and I freely admit to being accused of practicing “Snow Shovel Diplomacy” before. I don’t usually sugar coat my responses, but at the same time I won’t feed you a line of BS. Consider me as the uncle that tells you what life is really about when your father won't or can't.

Keep your attitude professional and continue with your education. Nothing worthwhile is cheap.

Best regards – Al
Parent - - By stickwelder (*) Date 10-31-2009 06:17
I understand where you are coming from. I am not suggesting that i do not need to use the proper reference, on the contrary that is what i was in search of. I know there are inspectors who do work that way, and thats not what i am looking to do. I have no intentions of performing qualifications without the code. Your response was professional and i can respect it.

I look forward to expanding my knowledge. Appreciate all of your advise (Al). I should have been clearer in the original post, to avoid any confusion.

This got pretty off track though. You brought it back to the original topic.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 11:10 Edited 10-31-2009 12:22
This is why it got off track young  whatever you are!!!

ssbn727 (****) Date 10-30-2009 22:59

Look stickwelder!

First off, get your story straight because you're the one causing all the confusion around here!!! Ohhh!!! You don't agree??? Well then, why in SAM HILL did you first write this which I copied and pasted off your last post just in case you decide to edit your post:

"I know that i have a new copy of API 1104 that is useless to me that i would sell if someone needed it, so i thought the same could be true for ASME. I purchased API for CWI testing, and decided I was more familiar with AWS. Good thing probably because i scored a 92 on the code. I will likely never do anything with that API other than read for entertainment."

Then you have the audacity to write this in the same post (Which I also copied and pasted just in case)??? what do you take us for ??? Get your story straight and go cough up the money for ASME Section IX and the other books you'll need as well!!! THat's whay Al is pizzed at people like yourself... It's because you cannot even keep your story straight for cryin out loud!!! And you teach???

"When i took the AWS prep class, i only slept two nights that week. I read that stack of books over and over. I read D1.1 cover to cover 7 times that week not to mention the practice quizzes, WIT etc."

Stop your Male Bovine Excrement and cough up the money to buy what you need and stop lying to everyone about your circumstances already!!!

Most of all, STOP YOUR WHINING ABOUT NOTHING!!! I also teach, and when I need a code book or reference standard, I either request it for where I teach, or buy one for my own personal gain, and strongly suggest that you do the same!!!

Henry
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 10-31-2009 12:06
Henry,
What is wrong with you?
You are totally out of line here, the minute other people disagree with you, you start to become personal.

The same with you discussion with Nanjing, it's getting out of control.

3.2
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 12:19 Edited 10-31-2009 12:36
Oh Boy!!! You should be the one to talk??? Please!!! ROTFLMFAO!!! :) :) :)

Henry
Parent - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 10-31-2009 12:31
Please point me to, where I am getting personal just because another member don't agree with me.
Relax a bit Henry, you make a fool out of yourself.

3.2
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 10-31-2009 11:52
OMFG Al,
The guy is simply asking to buy a used copy of ASME section IX
He don't ask for an "old copy"

He is about to qualify welders, and you jump on him about notch toughness and the like.

3.2
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 16:04 Edited 10-31-2009 16:08
You saw through the swamp water. When someone asks for a copy of a code that is no longer needed and then goes on to ask what edition is being offered, I take that as settling for an older "out of date" edition of ASME Section IX. It was admittedly an assumption on my part.

I stand by my position on the need to know what construction code is applicable because the construction codes do have a nasty habit of modifying just a few requirements that can bite the unwary in the butt. In support of my position I gave the example of the limitation in B31.3 for high pressure systems that will not accept welder’s qualifications that have been evaluated by radiography. 

Related to the subject of this thread I would caution any inspector that due consideration should be given before discarding "old" editions of the code. You never know when you will be asked to review a WPS or performance qualification record. To perform that function properly, one needs to compare the document against the requirements of the code that was in effect when the procedure/WPS/performance record was tested and written. The essential and nonessential variables may have changed during the intervening years.

It is just my opinion on the subject and we know that like a rectum, everyone has an opinion, except my wife. She has two, one she sends to work. ;)

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 10-31-2009 16:19
IMO there is no need to know the code of construction when you certify a welder, unless he specific informs the inspector that he in addition to section IX requirements needs to meet the requirements for a certain construction code. In such an event it is obvious that the inspector MUST be aware of such additional requirements.

If the welder just say, qualify me according to section IX, the wise business orientated inspector could ask if any additional requirements must be fulfilled.

There are tons of construction codes and specs, which accepts a section IX certificate, but has additional requirements.
Such requirements should be specified in the PO.

3.2
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-01-2009 14:16
3.2

There is every reason to know the code of construction when certifying a welder.
"unless he specific informs the inspector"
That could not be further from the truth. You refer to it being listed on a P.O. but in most cases where Section IX is referenced, it's call came from a construction code.
ASME II, ASME V, and ASME IX are not construction codes.
They cannot and do not independently give instructions on how to build anything other than specifics of a material, NDE exam, or PQR/Welder qualification.

More importantly, the welder does not tell the inspector what code is being utilized. As far as that welder is concerned, a weld is a weld, and should only be concerned with structural/piping 1G through 6G etc. and what the documented rules of the test are when it comes to his or her certification.

SECTIONS
I Rules for Construction of Power Boilers
II Materials
Part A — Ferrous Material Specifications
Part B — Nonferrous Material Specifications
Part C — Specifications for Welding Rods, Electrodes, and Filler Metals
Part D — Properties (Customary)
Part D — Properties (Metric)
III Rules for Construction of Nuclear Facility Components
Subsection NCA — General Requirements for Division 1 and Division 2
Division 1
Subsection NB — Class 1 Components
Subsection NC — Class 2 Components
Subsection ND — Class 3 Components
Subsection NE — Class MC Components
Subsection NF — Supports
Subsection NG — Core Support Structures
Subsection NH — Class 1 Components in Elevated Temperature Service
Appendices
Division 2 — Code for Concrete Containments
Division 3 — Containments for Transportation and Storage of Spent Nuclear Fuel
and High Level Radioactive Material and Waste
IV Rules for Construction of Heating Boilers
V Nondestructive Examination
VI Recommended Rules for the Care and Operation of Heating Boilers
VII Recommended Guidelines for the Care of Power Boilers
VIII Rules for Construction of Pressure Vessels
Division 1
Division 2 — Alternative Rules
Division 3 — Alternative Rules for Construction of High Pressure Vessels
IX Welding and Brazing Qualifications
X Fiber-Reinforced Plastic Pressure Vessels
XI Rules for Inservice Inspection of Nuclear Power Plant Components
XII Rules for Construction and Continued Service of Transport Tanks

Please pay attention to the word construction and tell me where you see it in Sections II, V, and IX.

At the end of the day, if the welder is telling the inspector what code he or she is to certify to and what the rules of that are, that in itself is a problem, much less any question of certification. The purchase order you refer to implies the welder is independently certifying which would not be allowed by ASME code as the owner of the welding program is responsible for the certification, not the welder.

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 11-01-2009 14:38
I stand corrected - in regards to ASME, which this topic was about.

3.2
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-01-2009 15:33
Excellent response as usual Gerald!!! ;) ;) ;)
I was speaking to a Vice President of Magnetech, the manufacturer of orbital welding equipment one time in the past, and I could not believe that he was also unaware of the significance as to what you explained thoroughly in your post - even though he is a formally trained mechanical engineer!!! Go figure Huh???

It just goes to show that having that paper hang on the wall doesn't mean much if you don't have an idea of or understanding that the ASME BPV code sections interact with each other for obvious reasons as well!!! ;) ;) ;) I hope all is well with you. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-01-2009 19:08
All is well as can be in the nuclear world. We have just completed the ASME III survey and are being approved for our N stamps.
I believe it was the first new one in 30 years. Now that we have it, it's time to get to work.
I am the project NDE LIII on record per NCA requirements, and am fast learning it's a pain in the arse.
Especially when there is no one around to ask questions. Codes of record are summer 73 Section III (modified by NCA 2007 per 50.55a and reg guide 1.49), B31.1, 72 addenda D1.1 (first edition of D1.1 I might add) with modifications by 2002 D1.1, Winter 71 section VIII, 2008 addenda Section II and IX, and repair and replacement parts for ABSCE and others at 2003 summer.
I've probably learned more about the ASME/AWS/ASTM code/standards in the last year and half than the previous 23 years.

I call it chasing ghost. As the people who wrote those codes are now mostly ghost and no longer around to ask questions for the most part.
As much of a pain in the butt as it is, it is an excellent learning opportunity for me. All those things I used to scratch my head on wondering what were they F>>>> thinking, well... now I know.

I believe the most important lesson is learning that where the code doesn't make sense, there was some logic applied decades in the past that made it as it is. What many of these codes failed to do was to pass on the 'why' of something. For the most part, all they pasted on was "it is what it is".
Learning that is "THE" biggest benefit to this project (that and being in on the rare ASME Section III audit). The people who know this code are few and far between, and getting rarer by the day at various nursing homes. It may not be used any more, but I can see a definitive path for serious mistakes if someone didn't understand the origins of the "why".

Ask a simple question get a paragraph.. I'll digress.

Hope all is well with you Henry.

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 11-01-2009 20:49 Edited 11-02-2009 13:24
"What edition do you have and how much to part with it?"

This last line in his post strongly eludes to the idea that he might settle for an older edition to me. :-)

However this would not be the first time someone has tried to tell me the sky is green and the grass is blue.

jrw159

EDIT: Spelling.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 10-31-2009 12:25
Did you ever get a code book ? I may have a 2007 WITHOUT addenda in a binder.  You can have it for $100.00 if I can find my second one.

That will help me pay for the new exciting 2010 edition when it comes out. Of course without the addenda you are not CURRENT. For welder performance qualification without consideration of code of construction, it should be fine. Also consider that if welders are testing per ASME sec IX, there should be a WPS used. (Maybe use one test sample for the pqr by adding tensiles and qualifiying the procedue at the same time.)

EDIT > I would suggest some time looking through the code and getting familar with it as a minimum. I still find things I miss and man is it embarrasing to go back to a customer to tell them I need to correct a mistake on MY paperwork.

Gerald Austin
Parent - - By stickwelder (*) Date 10-31-2009 15:55
I have what i need coming now. Thank you.

I will go through it several times to become familiar with it. A freind of mine works with this code frequently and i will get with him too for pointers. I know there are alot of mistakes made on the paperwork, i will do my best.

I purchased API months before CWI training. After studying both it, and an outdated D1.1 I decided the D1.1 was laid out better for me to locate information quickly. I tested to that d1.1 after recieving the new version at training. There is no hole in my story, it is no story. It is the circumstances as they are. There is no clearer or other way for me to give this information. I have tried every way i know how.

The three or four of you all that have provided useful information, and advise are appreciated. This is what i needed, useful information.
Henry-I am sure you probably also have a wealth of information on these codes. Certainly more experience with them than i. A little constructive critisicm, please use this knowledge that you have to help others rather than falling off the deep end. There are always going to be newbies, just like in welding that can use good advise from the more experienced. It is always best to ask for help from more experienced people than to just guess your way through i correct mistakes later. Many dont care if they are accurate, i do. 

I know as a welder, i had some high quality experienced hands help me along the way. I learned a wealth of information from them. They had no problem with helping me, probably because they wanted me to succeed but also had the self confidence that i could never outperform them. I usually found those that wanted to keep things secret, had nothing to hide. They weren't that good to begin with.

Just a little food for thought.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-31-2009 16:00 Edited 10-31-2009 16:03
ROTFLMFAO!!!:) :) :) :) :)

It's really is amazing just how obtuse you really are!!! You should try film school, or perhaps politics!!! Yeah! That's perfect for someone like you! Just don't expect my vote!!!:) :) :)

Henry
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 11-02-2009 03:54
Few people ever read the front matter of Codes and Standards.  I often find important information may be overlooked by the users when failing to do so.  From the forward of ASME say's it all in my opinion and should act to stop these silly arguments.

Section IX of the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code relates to the qualification of welders, welding operators, brazers, and brazing operators, and the procedures employed in welding or brazing in accordance with the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code and the ASME B31 Code for Pressure Piping. As such, this is an active document subject to constant review, interpretation, and improvement to recognize new developments and research data. Section IX is a document referenced for qualification by various construction codes such as Section I, III, IV, VIII, etc.

These particular construction codes apply to specific types of fabrication and may impose additional welding requirements or exemptions to Section IX qualifications. Qualification in accordance with Section IX is not a guarantee that procedures and performance qualifications will be acceptable to a particular construction code.
Parent - By north_fl_cwi (*) Date 11-02-2009 21:03
AMEN!
Parent - By stickwelder (*) Date 11-03-2009 04:54
//
Parent - - By stickwelder (*) Date 11-03-2009 04:58
Well hello again, Henry. Glad to see you are still hanging in there. I appreciate your great new ideas. Hmm..politics-you might be onto something. Sorry to hear about your vote, but thanks for your consideration.
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