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Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / condenser leak code work or no?
- - By scrappywelds (***) Date 11-03-2009 22:16 Edited 11-03-2009 22:19
We had a leak on the condenser today. Three cracks on an old (bad) repair pad weld today. I asked for the material of the condenser to get a wps for this repair. I was told by a Duke Energy Plant Manager to just use some 7018 and sew it up as long as it doesn't leak immedatly it is fine it wasn't code work and it will crack agian anyways. I asked my foreman to ask our CWI if that was true he would not ask. He took me off of the repair and put another welder on it, who made the repair a very bad looking repair that wouldn't have passed VT, but it didn't leak. My question is wouldn't that fall under Section VIII and couldn't that put our companies "R" stamp in jepordy?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-03-2009 23:22
Not every state requires compliance to ASME B&PV Code. The vessel could be designed and fabricated to ASME, but not "inspected" by an Authorized Inspector. That being the case, the vessel is not a "ASME" code vessel. Perfectly accepted practices in different parts of the country where the state laws haven't adopted ASME B&PV code as a legal requirement.

On the other hand, whether the state (or Parish in Louisiana) has adopted ASME B&PV code or not, most insurance carriers insist on pressure vessels compling with the B&PV code.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By MBSims (****) Date 11-04-2009 03:59
Power plant condensers are not code stamped vessels.  They operate under slight vacuum and are not under pressure.  They are usually built to standards published by the Heat Exchanger Institute (HEI) and use ASME VIII as a "guide" only for fabrication.  The shell is usually A36 or A283-C mild steel, but sometimes can be Corten.  I have also seen cast iron used on some old ones for water boxes.  E7018 would be the typical electrode needed for Corten or mild steel.

Still, someone should take the time to identify the material and figure out why it was cracking.  Sometimes drain lines or headers penetrate the shell and are not supported or reinforced sufficiently.  Thermal fatigue could also be a problem.

I see no risk of your R-Stamp being in jeopardy on a condenser repair.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-04-2009 12:59
You can still get HEI standard. There are a number of older condensers built to it. My current project consist of one built to it.
Parent - - By mightymoe (**) Date 11-04-2009 21:35
No "Weld Tech Support" on the job? I worked a nuke job for duke and we had the green light to call them up if we had any questions. 
Parent - - By scrappywelds (***) Date 11-05-2009 00:17
No he is not there unless called to our site. My problem with the whole thing was: 1. I need the proper WPS so I can post it, which means I need to know the material. 2. There was mutiple weld repairs in the area for old cracks. 3. I like to do the best job I can which means I need all the information I can get to make a sound repair that I feel confident about. 4. I don't like be treated like " the stupid welder ", just do what your told.
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 11-05-2009 01:13 Edited 11-05-2009 10:48
Scrappy
I don't deal much with pressure or piping system at all anymore.
Your post appears to be more you looking for justification for your actions.
I guess then the best suggestion is to be something other than a welder.
4. I don't like be treated like " the stupid welder ", just do what your told.
As a welder you are to do your best to produce sound weld.
To do this you have to have instruction. That comes in different forms depending on the owner or their representative. You posted " I was told by a Duke Energy Plant Manager to just use some 7018 and sew it up as long as it doesn't leak immedatly it is fine it wasn't code work and it will crack agian anyways."
This sounded like a representative gave you instructions and you failed to satisfy their request. As a welder you are not a review board nor a consultant.
Then you posted "I asked my foreman to ask our CWI if that was true he would not ask.He took me off of the repair and put another welder on it, who made the repair a very bad looking repair that wouldn't have passed VT, but it didn't leak." Are you an authorized inspector? You should thank your lucky star you still have a job. Dereliction of duty is one thing but disrespect of superior authority is not something the company wants.
The powers that be, said there was not any code required and they wanted a leak stopped. The time they had to cater to your questions and the reimplementing of personnel does not say profit or team player.
Just words from experiences I wish you luck
Respectfully
Marshall
Parent - - By scrappywelds (***) Date 11-06-2009 02:51
actually I was following company procedure and policy about what I need as a welder before I strike an arc on a repair. I need a wps posted at the jobsite and all needed safety procautions and permits taken care of. Duke Energry policy saids that I have a wps posted. My companies policy for issuing a wps is written verification of base materials for any welds. The bottom line is what was all their concern in this case not our policies or their own. I KNOW I was in the right to ask for the information, and if my Duke Energy resource manager wasn't on vaction I wouldn't have been issue to get the information I asked for and was required to have on hand and posted. I do not work for Duke Energy I work for a contractor at a Duke Energy site. I could have refused the job, and I would have been justified. I do my job correctly, by procedure, and following all companies policies to the best of my abilities. Honestly I would have just welded it up, if not for the fact I already had three days off without pay for not posting a wps at my jobsite, I had the wps just not posted.
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 11-06-2009 10:51
Srappy
Thanks for the more complete info.
I can see more of your predicament.
Throughout my 40 years of working the metals joining industry, I too have questioned authority and at times suffered the consequences. Other times it did as intended to enlighten a situation.
I will not get into scenarios.
Again just words from experiences I wish you luck
Respectfully
Marshall
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-06-2009 19:23
Sounds like a case of "damned if you do and damned if you don't."

I think you did the right thing by asking questions when the information isn't provided. Simply asking a question is not dereliction of duty. How many disasters could have been averted if someone had asked a simple question rather than blindly following directions based on incomplete or wrong information?

On the other hand, once the question is asked and a response is forthcoming, the employee's job is to do the job as he is directed unless there is an issue with the safety of the worker, the end user, or the general public.

It is amazing how quickly managers, engineers, and inspectors develop amnesia when something goes wrong! In which case the welder is all too often left holding the bag of flaming dog poop, finger on the door bell, as the rest of the fellas beat a hasty retreat!

While it is the employee’s responsibility to follow directions, it is still management’s responsibility to provide complete and proper work instructions. Failure to provide proper work instructions is a failure on management’s part, but we all know how rare it is for management to fail at fulfilling their responsibility.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / condenser leak code work or no?

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