This question is not for those who worked for years as an inspector and then decided to go through the formality of getting their CWI. For people who did it early on (maybe because you're in a field that requires CWI), how much did you know beforehand? If you took the CWI prep course, how much of the course content (and what parts, if you remember) was brand new to you?
I ask because we need more CWIs. Sorry, not hiring, plenty of inspectors, but we have to retrain some of them to become steel inspectors. So I'm wondering how much training (thinking more about classroom training than OJT) they would need before we ship them off to the AWS CWI prep class.
We have people working for us who inspected steel for years before we added the CWI requirement, and then they took the test. We have people who used to inspect other products, not steel, who walked into the CWI class cold and did fine (and then they went into the shop for real-world training). The first case, we don't have any more. The second case, I'm not sure everyone could do. But that's why I'm asking.
Hg
HG,
I went from a working foreman....fabricator/welder to all of a sudden the owner said hey...I want you to get the CWI. I did the one week seminar that was instructed by Ron Theiss (brilliant man). I was literally up all night studying all week long to be successful on the exam. For me it was a 180 degree difference to go from fab and welding to the inspecting side of the spectrum. I would say 80% of the content that I learned I was unaware of until that week. Training before the prep by current CWI's as you mentioned at your facility would be very beneficial in my mind.
JJ
I went thru a local community college, it was almost a semester long.And at the end we took the exam.The guy who taught it was Cal Pepper.He was on alot of AWS committees.
Ringo
"The guy who taught it was Cal Pepper.He was on alot of AWS committees. "
That Cal Pepper was on a few AWS Committees is true, but a little understated. Cal Pepper was the originator of the CWI concept. In the early 70's, he tried to get ASNT interested in starting the program. HE tried to get ASME interested. Finally, the AWS Board of Director's agreed, and eventually the most respected visual welding central certification program was born. Cal Pepper was a true visionary.
Cal Pepper was also on the Board of Directors, and was Chairman of the Qualification Certification Committee for many years. Cal Pepper is also a Registered Professional Engineer, with a few inventions attributed to him.
He is a man to be admired for his volunteerism and contributions to welding quality.
Joe Kane
He was a great teacher as well.If it was not for him,I doubt I would have passed the CWI exam on the first try.I don't know what he is up to these days,but I would like to give him a shout.I know he lived in Oak Ridge for a while,as his kids went to school here.I didn't know he did all those other things you spoke of,as he didn't talk about himself that much during the class.
Joe,
Thanks for bringing that to this thread, I wasn't aware of all of that.
My opinion is anyone with a solid background in welding and motivated can pass the CWI test. I have done it twice without any prep class. There are good prep classes and there are really bad prep classes. Getting the study materials from AWS and doing a self study for 3-4 weeks is all that is needed. BUT you need a knowledge of inspection tools, their application, and code interpretation.
The second aspect of once getting the CWI is being able to apply it. Most people who get into inspection understand their place. That is to visually inspect and accept or reject welds, welders and or welding procedures to a code, standard or job specification. There is a lot in that and some people cannot do it.
Our situation is the opposite--we have people with a lot of experience as inspectors, just not of steel. Unusual, I suppose.
Hg
You cannot take someone who has say experience in concrete and make them a welding inspector. It is two different disciplines. The CWI candidates must have experience in welding or weld inspection. You cannot substitute a background in manufacturing or inspection of of semi-conductors for welding.
Call it a career change. I'd rather have someone who has experience with quality control and quality assurance than someone right out of high school with zero relevant experience. Everyone's gotta start somewhere.
Hg
The gist of the posting was taking someone who is already in inspection and making them a welding inspector. It the person was inspecting in say concrete, asphalt, or final assembly on semiconductors, it would be hard to correlate that experience to welding. If the person had a eclectic background with experience in welding then there could be some correlation.
If this is for you, share your background. We may be able to help you. But you still have to meet the experience or education background required by AWS to even become a CWI candidate.
If this is a company program and you have a CWI on staff, the prospective inspector could meet the requirements of CAWI and work under the supervision of a CWI.
This is another can of worms, but could lower the experience requirements for entry level.
It's not for me. (As an aside, technically, I do meet the CWI experience requirements, but I still wouldn't call myself an inspector.)
In additions to the CWIs we already have, we have concrete inspectors with varied backgrounds; we also have people who inspect metal things smaller than typical CWI territory who we'd like to be CWIs as well. We'd like to retrain them (or some of them) to inspect structural welding. All of this, by the way, would be in the way of quality assurance or verification; in all cases the plant QC CWI would have looked at the items first.
No one is assuming these people already know what needs to be known. We're talking several years of OJT under a real CWI before they're out on their own--probably the full five, possibly less if they used to be a welder, but regardless we're not relying on merely satisfying the AWS experience requirement but must be confident ourselves that the inspector really knows what he is doing. The only things we can assume they bring with them from their prior experience are (1) the correct notion of what an inspector's responsibilities are and aren't (which sometimes can be surprisingly hard to get across), (2) how to use a specification (also less obvious than one might think), and (3) the ability to keep on top of a busy plant's fabrication process. In other words, the psychological side of inspection. But none of the technical side. We don't expect everyone we try to retrain to make it through the process. We think some but not all will be able to do the small metal items, and even fewer will make it all the way to structural inspection.
Like I said, everyone starts somewhere. Someone has to hire the guy who's never inspected before or no one would ever be able to enter the workforce, and retraining could mean saving someone's job if there isn't enough happening in his current function to justify his position. So we're willing to be the ones who take on training the new guy.
I'm currently trying to figure out the classroom training side of things, but OJT is very much going to happen.
Hg
I applaud the way you are approaching this. Your company is looking at a 3-5 year commitment for this. I have not seen any companies recently willing to take on this type of commitment. Several who jawbone, but are not willing to take on the commitment.
One other issue is after the inspectors are trained, what is your expected retention? Good inspectors demand $$ for their time. Is your company willing to train and possibly loose the training. I say this because a lot of companies do not have a realistic salary. Some companies offer in the low $20's with minimal benefits. Is your company willing to competed against the high end of the business? Even in today's economic conditions, top hands can get $45 to $60 per.
You have a concrete/soils inspector with a welding background that gets a CWI and then a NACE, that person will have to be handled carefully as there is a lot of competition for someone like that. Today that person could demand $50 easily.
What you are wanting to do is where industry needs to be looking out 10 to 25 years. It looks like you are looking at that time frame. Could you hint as to what industry this is?
A wise friend of mine has a saying: "You think it's expensive to give the guy training only to have him leave? Think about the cost of not giving him training and having him stay!"
We're not getting them NACE training (though they will be getting some coatings training), and we're not getting them real ASNT NDE Level II either, because in a quality verification/assurance function they just won't get the hours.
Our existing CWIs are all concrete inspectors as well, so I figure the new guys won't be any harder to retain than the old ones are. We don't pay so great but have good benefits, which should be a hint as to the industry, and that's all I'm gonna say about that! But yeah, we do have a highly qualified bunch of guys.
We're doing this because we have to. Our CWIs are all going to be retired in the next 10 years, most of them a lot sooner than that. We've hired a couple of new ones in the last few years, but they were pretty "mature" already when we got them, so they're in the same boat. If we want the new inspectors to be able to train under the old inspectors, we gotta get going yesterday. Desperation is a fine motivator. The key is to get desperate early enough that you can still do something about it...
Hg
Hg,
I went through the
CWI course without any prior inspection knowledge and passed with good grades on the first try, but I met the experience requirements spelled out due to me working in our shop for over 15 years (at that time) and had held several positions dealing with the structural steel product that we fabricate. Having said that, our shop has never had any dealings with stainless steel, inconel or Ti or any other "special" materials other than ASTM A36 - A572gr50 - A992....the AWS
CWI course briefly covered these materials and explained the different phases and changes that happen as the material cools down through the temerature ranges at differnt rates. Had I not taken this course I surely would have had to take a stab in the dark and guess at the questions pertaining to those materials.
With regards to the rest of the exam, it was all somewhat familiar due to having worked with D1.1 for 15 years. Now that I've been with this company 26 years, I can say that I'm still learning everyday, so passing the
CWI course and exam is a good start, but by no means an end to the journey of knowledge in this field.
walk in new........what about the 5 years in the industry.
you cant go from inspector 12 in a BVD factory and take a CWI then go inspect welds as CWI.
We're trying to get them from inspector #1 in some other construction material (that shall not be named) to inspecting welds as a CWI. We know we can't turn them loose on their own for a while; they'll need a LOT of OJT alongside a more senior inspector (and they'll still need to meet the experience requirement one way or another before they ever take the exam). But wondering how much of the classroom part we need to teach them here before we send them off to CWI class.
Hg
HgTX
Why leave that other product un-named. Temporarily Agglomerated Limestone Dust.
Joe Kane
I went from a Navy Welder to Civilian Boilermaker (8 years total ) then took my 1st CWI exam. No course but lots of self study on my own that was not really for CWI prep but covered most of the material anyway. I was somewhat of a bookworm when it cam to exciting reading like the Welding Handbooks.
I was only familar with Mil Stds about 6 mos prior to the test but was working for a boiler company with a P.E. that loved to talk about codes as much as I wanted to learn. Used B31.1 and Sec IX.
I think the core knowledge of the subjects could maybe be evaluated before hand and the classrom/ojt suited to the individual.
Gerald
I was a welder for 7 years before taking my CWI, passed first time with good grades after a previous 6 months of intensive self study followed by taking the prep seminar (I STRONGLY urge the prep seminar, as expensive as it is!). Retired my CWI just last year after holding it continuously for 29 years. For me personally, obtaining my CWI was the absolute best career move I ever made, it opened so many doors it was unbelievable!
I went from 10 years of stuctural and bridge fabrication & welding on the floor to shop inspector within the same company. The previous shop inspector had moved on to another job.
I had not had any formal training in weld inspection prior to that, simply learned what the inspector would not accept and tried to make sure not to do that.
My boss was a mechanical engineer/CWI and he wanted me to get my CWI. He had taken the seminar and passed and decided that I didn't need to take the seminar myself (although I would have liked to). He handed me the CWI study guide (can't recall the title), the "Welding Inspection Handbook", D1.1, and photocopies of the sample questions he had from his seminar.
I did well on the code and general portions and squeaked by on the practical.
I muddled through the early parts of my career (some will say I am still muddling) without a lot of guidance. I like to think I figured it out (now if only I could remove the politics from inspection)
The biggest problem I see with structural and bridge steel inspection is the lack of training opportunities. I don't mean the seminar, but hands-on inspection on real steel. I have no idea how to do that cost effectively. Perhaps the most logical approach would be for the various DOT's to run a seminar of their own? That could also cover reporting requirements and documentation (seems like that's the TPI's most common complaint s/he doesn't know what paerwork is required)
I was trained and certified VT MT PT UT level II in the Navy, then got out and went after my CWI early due to most employers preferring that over VT II. Now I find there is an increasing demand for VT II within the inspection companies anyway, so I'm working towards my ASNT VT level III to round out my resume so to speak. I have UT MT PT lvl III, dont prefer to pursue RT, so its the next logical step I guess.
All i can say about the prep class is, I wasnt suprised by anything, having done visual weld inspections as VT II, and also, almost everything that was gone over in the class, was on the test. I was verey glad I took the class, especially the code clinic. I skipped NDT day though and went fishing lol.
if you have your cwi asnt will give you the vt 11 for a fee
no test required
Sorry for jumping into this discussion several months late.
Well here are some of my thoughts on this matter. There are many construction inspectors who are multi-certified. They all had to start somewhere. Some started in welding, became CWIs and then got into concrete, soils, etc....picking up relevant certs along the way.
So, a concrete inspector can be trained to pass the CWI exam. It's not that difficult with adequate training and lots of study. However, lack of relevant experience may qualify the individual for CAWI status only.
Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Question for people who became CWI early in career
