Information needed about further education

Date 08-25-2012 04:08

Hello PFI,

There are seminars for CWS and CWI but I don't know of any for the SCWI. They expect those applicants to be ready for the exam by the very qualifications that make them qualified for the exam.

I'll see if I can find anything. You might check with Hobart and some of the other outfits that do prep seminars for inspectors.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By PFI

Date 08-27-2012 18:28

Thanks Brent, Guess I just like to be prepared. In the same token I felt i was educated and had all the educational experience for the CWI exam years ago but still benefited greatly from the preparatory CWI seminar AWS offered.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 08-28-2012 14:55

You're not alone. Many of us wish for more seminars, and even more info in the ones offered, to prepare us for both taking the test and to be more comfortable that we are truly ready to do our jobs. I guess it's the work ethic, character, and perfectionist in us. Some would respond, you shouldn't take the test if you don't know what your doing and aren't ready. Well, I see lots of people who can pass the exams but they sure aren't ready. And there is no mandatory training after the CWI. I was very fortunate to get linked up with some of the right people who took the time to further train me AFTER I passed the exam. I understand AWS is just getting people to a certain point and then depending upon employers to finish any training that is specific to their needs. But I'm not convinced that is adequate.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By GACWI Date 10-24-2012 19:09

Look into Son Set Consulting... $500.

By 803056

Date 09-19-2012 13:22

Hello Gentlemen;

I'm a little late jumping in on this thread, but late is better than never in some cases.

Brent you are absolutely correct in your assessment that AWS only takes the individual so far in preparing/studying for the CWI examinations. That being said, the seminars are designed as a review of the subject matter that may be on the examinations. There is a presumption that the individual taking the examination has a solid back ground in welding. That back ground, i.e., the qualifying work experience is very broad. While the assumption is that the individual is going to be filling the roll of a visual welding inspector, that isn't the only function served by the CWI.

You are a good example of the multiple rolls some CWIs fill. You are a welder, a shop owner, an inspector, and I assume you have done your share of teaching others how to weld and I'm sure you have offered a fair amount of advice on matters relating to welding and design. What level of training would have to be provided to prepare an individual to fill the multiple roles you do?

AWS offers the CWI review seminar, but there are many other seminars offered by AWS that do provide more detailed information and training, but most people do not take advantage of them until after they have taken the CWI examinations. Consider the seminars that are offered during the year by AWS and all the seminars offered by AWS at FabTech. Many of those courses can be used to prepare an individual for the SCWI. There are other resources available as well from organizations such as ASNT, ASM, ASME, and others.

The one argument I hear is that the seminars offered by these organizations are too expensive. To that I say have you looked at the cost of taking a college course at a university recently? The cost of an hour of classroom time at a university can easily exceed $75.00 per session. Lab fees? Higher yet. Education is not cheap. It is damn expensive to get an education in terms of monetary expenditures as well as time needed to travel, attend class, and to study.

AWS is like any other organization, they are market driven. They provide services for which there is a demand and when there is a profit to be made. You operate your shop the same way. If there is no money to be made, you seek work where you can turn a profit. The Certification Committee operates the same way when people ask us to consider different certification programs. We have to consider whether there is enough market demand to develop the certification program and the training materials required to prepare a person for the requisite examinations. It takes a lot of time and effort to develop a training program and it takes a lot of money to hire a facility to conduct the training. You would tell me I'm full of hot air if I told you what it costs to rent a conference room at a major hotel and provide "snacks" for coffee breaks, never mind a meal at lunch time.

The resources are available, but you have to seek them out. AWS can provide a limited range of seminars, but only when they can be justified.

Brent, I consider myself to be like you in many respects. Some people might say we are overachievers. I wanted to know more about welding, so I did my homework to find it. I attended just about every seminar offered by AWS. I completed a program offered by Ohio State University. Basically I attend a series of courses offered by the Department of Welding Engineering. OSU offered a series of welding engineering courses that involved attending classes for one week per month for about a year. That meant I took time off from work to attend the courses and paid for airfare, hotels, and meals as well as the cost of the courses out of pocket. I enrolled as a student at OSU so I could take the final examinations to get university credit that I could transfer to the college that granted my BS. I took related courses at several different colleges and universities to get the engineering back ground I wanted. I studies civil engineering and earned a degree in Civil Technology, I took courses in physics, solid state electronics, thermal dynamics, and calculus, and yes, I even took English classes. I took my NDT courses from Hellier and qualified as a Level III for five different NDT methods. All of the costs came out of my pocket. It wasn't cheap. However, the training and instruction is available, but there is no door-to-door salesman knocking at the door, you have to seek it out.

Best regard - Al

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 09-19-2012 18:18 Edited 09-19-2012 18:21

Thank you for all that input Al.

And I agree and understand, especially from the AWS's viewpoint with money being a driving factor. Not, as many would assert, so much for 'Profit' but just to meet expenses and provide a service that will not break the bank. Profits may be achieved but the monies go into funds to help us, the members and welders in general, out in so many other ways.

I know there are opportunities available, I believe Hobart is one, to get training for the SCWI exam. And yes, I also like taking as many of the AWS seminars as I can. While at FabTech this year I plan on attending the seminar for WPS's (AGAIN). I took it last year and complained big time to Miami that it did not live up to it's advertised goals. This year they have broken it down into two sessions, Basic and Advanced. I am going to take both to see how it is now being presented. As our Section Chairman and our section's Certification Committee Chairman I want to know what and how the presentation is compiled to know how to recommend it to others. I felt very let down last year and had encouraged others to take it as well and one of my members here in AZ went to Chicago specifically for the WPS seminar at my recommendation. One of my active members here took the seminar for 'Advanced Visual Inspection' Workshop. He loved it and then took his re-test for the Part 'B' and passed. This year my son is going up to LV to take that class to help him prepare for the CWI Seminar and Exam. Will possibly take the seminar on Weld Symbols as well though I think he has a real good handle on those already.

You are correct, all of these will help one with the CWI as well as the SCWI Exams and probably even the CWS Exam (Certified Welding Supervisor). You are also correct, for many of us, even those without my multiple roles of responsibility, we NEVER stop learning. And we are always wanting more in order to do our job above and beyond. Average, like everyone else, mediocre, just enough to get by; none of these are acceptable attitudes for most of us here. And we sometimes expect too much out of organizations like AWS instead of taking more responsibility on ourselves to go other places to get further education. I like to take as many as I can from AWS and then, when not available there, I go elsewhere. I like the system they have put together. It isn't perfect. But it is hard to beat. When people come on this forum and ask questions, I try to answer according to what is available here/AWS. And, if I remember correctly, the OP was in regard to what AWS had available for seminars to prep for the SCWI exam. So I answered accordingly. But I am not trying to say that since AWS doesn't have such a seminar you are flat out of luck.

Money is always at the root of the complaints that are heard. And I agree with you. Go ahead, look at colleges, Hobart Institute, Real Education, and anyone else offering any classes of value for our field of expertise. None of them are cheap. And I don't expect them to work for free or cheap. After all, if you want the best you pay for it; cars, dentists, cancer surgeons, etc. And, I myself don't work for cheap. You want cheap? Go to the guy whose work is questionable and will probably have to be redone and isn't certified, insured, bonded, licensed, etc. Bottom line, I don't expect AWS seminars to be cheap. There is a lot of research, expense, meetings, and effort put into developing, advertising, marketing, teaching, testing, scoring, and sending results out, and on and on items that require money. If I want AWS to remain as a support orgainization then I need to buck up and pay the money. They may be sound financially but they wouldn't be for long if there wasn't a demand and people willing to pay the money for the seminars and exams.

Well, enough of my rambling. Hope to meet up with you at Fab-Tech this year Al. I haven't forgotten I still owe you a cup of tea. My wife, son, and I are staying at the Stratosphere I believe.

Have a Great Day, Brent