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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / WPS Help
- - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 07-17-2015 09:49
Ok, so I have jumped off the deep end and am writing some prequalified procedures. Of course I will take them to the lab and have a real CWI review them for approval and their stamp. Just basic procedures, nothing spectacular.

I have used the prequalified form from D1.1 but I'm putting in the parameters for SMAW and it's asking for voltages and travel speed. The manufacturer does not show voltages for SMAW but looking over other procedures I have gotten show voltage and travel speed.

My question, where do you find this? I have been looking thru D1.1, from chapter 3 to the end but have not seen anything yet. I'm not even certain it would be in there but there must be recommended travel speeds and voltages correct? Somewhere? The last procedures I had written I had to fill out the basics and when I got them back from the lab they had the voltages/travel speed filled in.

I'm trying to have several different electrode sizes listed on the paperwork but other than going out to the machine and connecting a voltmeter and running all three rods and somehow looking at the voltmeter I can't figure it out.

My apologies if this is a stupid question. I'd rather figure it out myself but time is an issue also, wanting to get this moved from my laptop to the CWI's but I also want to learn it. Learn it better if I am thrown in the mix and retain it better that way as well. I can read a book and forget more than half by the end of the day!!

Thanks for any help!
Shawn
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-17-2015 23:54
Remember, the downloadable and sample forms are generic and cover many processes and applications.  There are blanks that will not always be filled out.  As in your case 'flux'.  That is not asking for the flux composition of SMAW 7018 electrodes.

The main things are items that will give you the correct 'recipe' to complete the task.  It will include essential variables and at least some non-essential variables.

But, think about this, what is SMAW? VV, CV, CC?  Can you really list a voltage?  Not without using a 'range'.

Travel speed is only critical when calculating heat input on certain applications.  It too will vary in your application as volts, amps, bead width, arc length, etc all change.

Don't try to be too precise, it will only bite you and ruin your productivity. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 07-18-2015 02:46
Thanks for the advise Brent. I figured "flux" was directed towards the wire world. That makes sense about the volts etc. I use the min/max for the electrode that way you have the entire range for various situations, sounded logical. :grin:
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-18-2015 03:01
I suggest that you use the ranges within those suggested by the electrode manufacturers.  As already indicated, voltage for SMAW is not a variable controlled.

As you write the procedure, take note of each of the variables listed in the table in clause 3  make sure it is addressed. If you are using an older code (not suggested), then the variables are referenced in clause/section 4-Table 4.5.

If you want to go over the requirements for a prequalified WPS, you can give me a call sometime. I am by no means an expert on the matter but may be able to help you through some spots. I do have some experience making mistakes on D1.1 WPS's. :)

I would suggest depending upon the code, listening to what others (CWI's, Labs etc...) have to say, and making sure it matches up (code vs opinions).

Gerald Austin
6626600162 Call or Text if you need any help. Usually up by 5:00 AM EST
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 07-18-2015 09:54
Much appreciated Gerald. I do have an older version but this year I am thinking it's time to upgrade and since they are coming out with the new 2015 at least it will be good for 4-5 years! :grin:

I know it's good to hear other opinions. It seems there is quite a bit of interpretation in this while other stuff is cut and dry. Thanks for the input, may be in touch. Also good to chat it up with folks met thru here, about welding, code or just whatever. Thanks Gerald!
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-18-2015 13:22
Run a few electrodes and have someone monitor the voltmeter to see what voltage range is reasonable. Just because one can hold a long arc, doesn't mean the weld is going to be acceptable. The ranges should be reasonable and should be capable of depositing an acceptable weld. Different electrode classifications - different voltage range. Different electrode diameters - different voltage ranges. Different welding position - not too much difference in voltage for a give electrode classification or for different diameters.

The WPS you submit to a customer is one way they assess your level of technical expertise. If the values you list in the WPS are unreasonable, an opinion is formed.

I reviewed a WPS that was qualified to ASME Section IX. It listed the voltage as 0 - 220 and the amperage 0-350. You can imagine the opinion that formed as soon  as I reviewed the WPS. "Here is an idiot that knows nothing about welding."

I usually get three or four calls a year from people that ask: "Where do I find the voltage, amperage, and travel speed to list on the PQR?" Opinion: "Here's another idiot."

We all have to learn from the school of hard knocks, going to college, reading books, or having someone that is willing to mentor us. That being said, the opinions I form now are tempered by age and recognizing the fact that none of us were born with the knowledge needed to be all things to all people. We all have to take our lumps, bumps, and falls. That's how we learn. Learning is a slow, painful, and expensive process.

You will never learn to swim if you don't jump in and get wet. The same is true with learning to write a WPS or learning to weld. In the case of welding; just try to say on dry ground while doing it or you might find it a shocking experience. At least, that's what a few welder/divers have told me.

I hate to say this, but just because someone holds a CWI certificate in their wallet does not mean they know squat about writing or reviewing a WPS. You wouldn't ask a 16 year old kid with a brand new driver's license how to prepare for the Indy 500 (unless you are a 14 year old). You need to develop an association with someone that knows the ropes. I recommend you seek the services of a SCWI. The SCWI examination is intended to verify the individual understands the rudiments of writing a WPS and how to qualify the WPS. There is nothing on the CWI examination or the CWI seminars that ensures anymore than the individual knows where to find a bit of information on the form. Learning how to write a WPS comes much later.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 07-19-2015 21:28
Well I kind of figured that Al, as far as voltage, etc. Seemed odd that there would be a "book" of sorts listing that sort of stuff but I don't know everything and have run across some crazy stuff in this life that I wouldn't have figured was out there then come to find out....it is.

Guess I'll have to hire a guy with a stop watch and another to calculate the distance while I run the welding rod. Now what to do about the weld. Fillet weld with a snug fit up or a fillet weld with a gaping gap like I experience at times on jobs. LoL!! I've burned a whole rod in an inch and a half on some of these engineered fits versus 6-7 inches on a good fit.

Like your example of the 0-220 and 0-350! I would have asked them to demonstrate the weld at 0 volts and 0 amps!
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-20-2015 03:16
You read my mind.

Al;
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / WPS Help

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