I currently work as the Manager at a small shipyard. We do extensive aluminum welding. I have a great deal of knowledge of diesel engines and associated systems. I was in the Navy and got my training hands on there. However, I have little more than a very general knowledge of welding and welding practices. I find that I rely greatly on my employees and have no choice but to take everything they tell me as fact. I recently had quite a few outside contractors come in and realized they are doing the same job in much less time.
I would simply like to get more knowledge about welding practices in general. I want to make sure I am not being unreasonable in what I ask of my guys. I would also like to be able to have a better idea so far as the scope of repairs needed and what the job truly entails. I would also like to be able to eventually be able to check repairs and see that they are up to standard.
I looked at the possibility of pursuing the CWI class. I figured I should probably also do some introductory welding classes as well to be exposed to all the different equipment etc. My knowledge is general at the moment, I know the basic process but as I said I am extremely far from an expert.
What would you recommend that someone, in a managerial position pursue to have a better scope of what my employees are up against and eventually be able to check work to make sure it is up to standard.
A
CWI cert would be an eye opener as far as welding as a whole is concerned, but is probably not the best fit for what you need.
I suggest that you start by going to this aluminum conference -
http://www.aws.org/events/detail/18th-annual-aluminum-conferenceThere, you'll be able to find experts and resources that can answer any questions that you may have.
It would also be a good idea to bring an enginner with you, to help keep abreast with the latest in aluminum manufacturing technology.
Tim
Welcome to the forum Hoboken,
You are asking all the right questions!
In some ways shipbuilding is it's own world with DOD and Navsea requirements that differ or exceed AWS codes.
In general terms for learning how to better manage a welding operation I would suggest the following:
Study for the CWS (Certified Welding Supervisor) designation. It is an excellent first step toward the CWI, it shares much of the same body of knowledge, is based Process, Quality, Manufacturing, and Inspection...Rather more broad than the CWI. But the exam is less difficult.
I would suggest Jack Barckhoff's "Total Weld Management" and the "Certified Welding Supervisor Manual for Quality and Productivity Improvement" Both published by the AWS.
Having and using daily, the applicable codes and standards required for production will make you stronger and more conversant with the shop floor wealth generators.
Join your local AWS chapter and attend the meetings. The networking and involvement is priceless... Plus the regular plant tours may get you in the door of some local players to see how they do things that you might never see otherwise :)
Come here (the forum) and ask questions often... There are at least a couple of NavSea specialists and also a number of aluminum experts here that can speak to process and code issues with authority.
Welcome !
Hoboken.......You need a good, well versed , knowledgable, no nonsense & LOYAL TO YOU & THE OWNER......"Pusher" also known as a General Forman....... You as a manager shouldn't have deal with the daily grind of production from the workers......80-90% of the general workforce will not do the right thing even if it causes them to lose their jobs..... Somebody who knows the working parts of the Trade/ industry needs to be leading them..........Good Luck.......
This is one of the few times I'm going to disagree with my friend Larry. I favor the CWI if you are dealing with day to day welding issues. The CWI is intended for people that are considering taking the CWI, but it also serves as a good basis of general knowledge where the person needs a good back ground in the technology of welding and recognizing what is a good weld and what isn't. It also provides a good working understanding of a code. My preference is D1.1. Unlike API 1104 that doesn't provide any useful information, yes you read what I said, AWS D1.1 is essentially a cook book of how to make a good weld. AWS D1.1 serves as the basis of several other codes widely used by industries that are not actually building steel framed buildings.
I don't disagree that Jack's course isn't worthwhile, I just believe the CWI is better aligned with your needs.
Best regards - Al
That's a reasonable disagreement Al.
For folks without the 5 years or experience to sit for the CWI I recommend the CWS as a very productive and worthwhile "step". The CWI is far more marketable... But the two share a lot of body of knowledge.
I also think process engineers and managers will find more value in the CWS body of knowledge and still have the inspection chops to walk the shop floor and know what she/he is looking at :)
Lawrence, I would agree with you if the poster was an engineer, designer, or responsible for determining the means and methods of manufacturing, but this fellow seemed to be concerned with interfacing with the welders.
I'm sure he has limited responsibility for the bottom line profit and loss of his department, but it seemed to be limited. One does not have to take the CWI examination to make the seminar worthwhile. The CWI is more "hands-on" then the CWS. At least that's my take on the difference between the two programs. If this person had more hands-on experience with welding I would push him toward the CWS.
Best regards - Al
Is it just me and my limited experience: Or is the CWS a very select group. I cannot recall ever meeting one.
They must be as rare as retired US Senators.
Flux
I think your correct
never see any ads for cws
love to hear what Milt has to say
if he ever considered going for cws
imho cws and cwf shop are an ego thing
I will be wrong but not the first time
sincerely,
Kent
We are a small operation, we only run 4 welders at a time. Only about 40 skilled laborers in the yard. I oversea the day to day of everyone. Like I said I am stuck having to believe my welders when they say welding something is going to take them 2 days. It might be a two hour job. Obviously I could tell the difference between that but overall I just need to be able to have the ability to judge the scope of jobs and make sure I am being realistic with what I am asking of my guys.
I know ideally I would have an experienced foreman but that isn't in the cards right now. We had one and found that he was the worst out of all of them when it came to not working while supervised.
I work in a managerial position where I spend 6 hours of the day out checking up on jobs and assigning work and another 4 doing the paperwork end of stuff. Not ideal but it is the fact of the situation.
Obtaining a CWI would give you the ability to ensure that your welding program is properly documented and fabricates code compliant product.
Obtaining a CWS would give you the ability to ensure your crews are fabricating code compliant product in the most cost effective manner, with the most efficient of the basic processes.
As a Manager, your key focus is production. Wearing both quality and production hats at the same time usually becomes an untenable situation. I would recommend that you delegate the quality role to a competent CWI who can spend the time necessary to ensure code compliance from start to finish, which pays off in the long run through reduction of rework and customer satisfaction.
Attending conferences, like the one I mentioned, would help you ensure that you have the information necessary to provide your shop with the best materials, tools and processes to do the job in the most efficient manner. Bolstering that information with the process efficiency knowledge that would come with a CWS would be the best combination for a successful Manager.
Tim
What exactly do they mean five years experience, I have 8 years in a yard setting supervising a welding operation. Or is that 5 years hands on welding in which case I am obviously not qualified.
Your supervision over welders will probably be just fine to sit for the exam :)
Hi Hoboken,
Your situation is the same everywhere (not only fab & weld).
I recently had quite a few outside contractors come in and realized they are doing the same job in much less time.
The difference is that contractors get paid to go in, do the job, and get out. Discrete scope of work. In house workers generally do not have the same motivation or sense of urgency. The next job is waiting for them. "I'll get to it, when I get to it".
As a Manager, you should be looking at ways to improve the efficiency of the processes you have in place, and motivate your guys. I would look at what is the least efficient part of the build process and try to improve it. Involve the guys to get their input and buy-in.
Tyrone
Wow.
Okay, let me start this way:
WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!
Now, for your question. Man, all of the guys are right. But I personally think you are going to have a hard time passing either the CWI exam or the CWS exam. Nothing against you, but with your stated experience and knowledge level I think it will be too much too fast.
In many ways I am leaning towards the CWS as you are more of a supervisor that would glean much from knowing how to determine production and awareness of operating parameters to economize the welding.
But, there is much to be gleaned from the seminar portion of the CWI exams as well so you could effectively and with authority challenge the quality of the welds being laid down.
Which one is best. That is a very difficult arena for us to advise you on.
Personal opinion, take both seminars but neither exam. The time and dollars will be well spent to learn as much of the class material as possible while you really don't need to prove yourself to anyone by taking the exams that you very well may not pass, thus, wasted time and money for the extra day.
But remember, you said, I believe, that most of your work is to aluminum. These seminars will include that but are mostly aimed at steel. The CWS is for shipyard work in particular but building steel ships. The CWI will be mostly focused on steel structures and pipelines. Still, both will have much that can be easily applied and crosses over to all codes.
Just my two tin pennies worth.
He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent
