Al,
thank you for your quick reply, My written practice does delineate how to certify (education requirements, hours etc)
I was trained by a local inspection company, the trainer is a level 3. I was trained in VT, PT and MT and have satisfied all the hours for each to be a level 2. the only problem (I think) is I was trained and approved while I was working for another company and not for myself, I assume, whereas I'm not working for that company any longer and for myself, I would lose that training and all that experience?
To answer your question "Exactly what is it you expect the Level III to do?" in a way, i'm asking the same, to some extent. I assume, giving the situation as it is now (sole person in my company) I would need to be atleast a level 2 to perform all the NDT services I want to offer and I would need a level 3 to approve my written practice? or do I? as the owner can I approve it?
If I'm no longer certified in PT or MT, I would need to be trained, test and put in the hours under a level 3?
Hello Fred;
Now I have a better idea of your situation. Your classroom training never expires as long as you kept records of the training, test scores, etc. The training can even be "home study", but that gets tricky as far as documentation. The relevant experience can be a little tricky if you left after burning your bridges. You need to have a way of verifying the time worked performing MT, PT, etc.
For your situation I would recommend that you obtain your ASNT ACCP certification as a Level II. You will need to apply through ASNT and you will need to provide documentation of your classroom training and related work experience. It is not unlike applying for the CWI examinations.
ASNT has test sites around the country where you can sit for the ACCP Level II examinations. That save the expense of traveling to Ohio and it allows to take the examinations in a more timely fashion. The ACCP is a central certification schema so it doesn't expire as you go from one employer to another. In your case, you would include recognition of the ACCP certification into your written practice. ASNT becomes your defacto certification agency. Self certification is always questionable. ACCP keeps everything above board.
You will still need to work with a Level III that is also ACCP certified to help you write your written practice and your procedures.
If you are interested in working as an independent, don't forget the insurance. That is usually the hard part of operating as an independent CWI/NDE.
By the way, applying to ASNT for your Level II VT is a snap. Send two box tops, two thin dimes into ASNT along with verification you have your CWI and presto - you are ACCP certified as a Level II for VT welding inspection.
Best regards - Al
Al,
No, I didn't burn any bridges, additionally I have been performing VT, PT and MT for one of my biggest clients for 6 years.
I have looked into the ACCP option but here in lies the problem, becoming ACCP certified, would that rewind the clock as far as experience? It would be very costly to pay a level 3 to follow me while i perform NDT inspections. when it comes right down to it, I need to comply with the ASNT, If I can design a program (already done) and comply with my NDT certs and additional self study, is this compliant?
I have had insurance since the start of my business in 2010, it was 3 million and i recently up'ed it to 5 million.
It would be so much easier if you were allowed to perform NDT inspection with your CWI, I recently took my 9 year re-cert and there are plently of NDT questions on the test!!
No, the clock is not rewound if you get certified through the ACCP program. It is simply a central certification program that meets ISO requirements, is recognized world wide, and provides your clients with that extra level of comfort. Clients are getting more sophisticated. They realize SNT-TC-1A has a number of weaknesses and many will no longer recognize/accept certification to SNT-TC-1A. Soon or later, even AWS D1.1 will wake up to the problems associated with SNT-TC-1A.
Best regards - Al
Al,
Thank you for all the great information!! This will get me going in the right direction.
Al,
I need some clarification on experience for a giving method.
Total hours in method and total hours in NDT? I looked on the ASNT website and they list both of these, for MT you need 265 in method and 530 in NDT. My question this ... do you need both? either? I have years of experience in VT, does that count towards NDT total?
You need relevant experience in the test method.
If you are doing both MT and visual at the same time, i.e., on the same project, then you need the accrued hours and it must include at least 25% of the time performing MT in order to be counted.
It provides an "out" if the inspector is performing more than one type of NDE. An inspector working in a lab may be doing nothing other than MT, so the hours count. An inspector working in the field is usually doing several types of examinations, so the accrued hours are used. Again, at least 25% of the time must be spent performing the NDE method for which certification is sought.
Al
ok, so with that said, I would need 265 in MT and 530 total in all NDT for me VT, PT and MT?
That satisfies MT, but what about the PT? During that 530 hours, one would also have to perform some penetrant testing. Again, 1/4 of the hours accrued can be counted toward each test method. 530/4 toward MT, 540/4 toward PT, and 540/4 toward VT. The remaining time is assumed to be NDE related tasks such as writing reports, preparation for the examinations, etc. Again, document, document, document. You need to show you performed each examination method during the 540 hour time period.
Best regards - Al
OK, that clears it up, thanks Al!!
Fred,
Some of the hours thing can get pretty complicated at least as far as getting my pea brain to understand it.
What helped me, was to get a good Level III who was mainly involved with training and certifying and hires on as your company retained level III.
For all of Al's wisdom and help there is only so much he can do to answer questions on an open forum that may not apply the same to someone else reading the response. Answers are given very carefully and generically.
Getting 100% direct answers are much more easily accomplished one on one with someone who will ask all the right questions as to what you want to accomplish and will show you how SNT-TC-1A is used vs. CP-189 and others. With Al's advice taken into account I asked my level III a lot of questions before allowing him to write our company program using SNT-TC-1A. He was impressed with the understanding of the differences I already had which was thanks to Al and others here and reviewing many past threads prior to meeting with him. The 'Search' function here is an excellent tool. Check it out.
But, you can't go wrong with the advice Al has been giving you the past few days.
He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent
Brent,
I totally get what your saying, I agree that would be the best and easy way of doing this, unfortunately, the level 3's I do know of in the area are additionally in the same business of inspection, I would see this as a conflict of interest, more so for them, as they would be increasing my abilities to compete in more work. get what I mean?
Well funny story, I ran into a level 3 today, forgot about this guy working for a long term customer of mine, I had an enlightening conversation with him, he told me he self appointed himself as the level 3 asnt for the company he works for, for administration purposes (paperwork, procedures etc) he trains his staff (VT, MT and PT) to level 2 and monitors the hours. he said he once was ACCP level 3 but long ago let that go by not choosing to pay the fee.
He told me I could do the same, I could sign my own written practice, and MT, VT and Pt procedures, where it would get dicey could be me training an employee to level 2 in the methods i'm qualified to, but I have no plans to do that any time soon. just have a system in place and perform the NDT myself.
The problem is the acceptance by customers of that system. It works for SOME but not for ALL. In fact, I would say very few can utilize the process that way.
But, that is between you and your customers.
Brent
Gotcha, So more acceptable if the written practice was approved by a level 3 and as long as i'm the only one (for now) performing the NDT, I should be all set on my PT and MT certifications.
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