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Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / Need help with Base metal qualification
- - By PFI (**) Date 02-26-2016 13:56
QW424.1 outlines specific rules associated to the base metals and indicated A p-number to any other p-number, so in this senero ... If I have a WPS/PQR that is P1 to P1 and I have a WPS/PQR that is P5A to P6 because the welder is qualified P1-P15F, 34 and 41-49 does that mean he is qualified for the second WPS/PQR (P5A to P6)??

I am assuming that I need to have these 2 different procedures as they are defined in QW-424.1 as different.
Parent - - By PFI (**) Date 02-26-2016 19:37
I want to make absolutely sure about this...,   I have a WPS that is P1 to P1, per QW-424, the qualified base metals for that procedure is metals contained in p1 only.  Now for Welder qualification, the welder testing to the WPS above, can use p1-15F, 34,41-49 for testing but is only qualified the same as the WPS he is testing too... p1 to P1?  This is not what pro write is kicking into the qualification range for the welder, it is listing the whole range above. Am I missing something here?  I see this under alternate base materials for welder qualification". Not all materials a welder is qualified to!
Parent - By PFI (**) Date 02-26-2016 20:10
I think I found my answer under we-304 welders allowed to weld others WPS but need to apply the essential variables, p-number would not allow it
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 02-27-2016 00:05
The qualification ranges for the welder are separate and apart from the ranges for a WPS. The welder must be qualified for a production weld based upon his/her ranges of qualification and the procedure used must be qualified for the ranges used for production.

One may be qualifed outside the ranges of the other.
Parent - - By PFI (**) Date 03-04-2016 01:05
Ok, so in the case listed above, the WPS for P1toP1, can only be used for metals contained in the P1 group, if there were impacts tests, it would be further limited to the metal group as tested.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-04-2016 18:03
Group Number would be a limiting variable if

1) Impact Testing (Supplementary Essential Variables) were required.

AND

2) You are only referring to the use of the WPS in production. Materials may be substituted for performance qualification.

Hope this helps.
Parent - - By PFI (**) Date 03-04-2016 20:10
Yes, impact testing would limit it to the group number.

Ok, let's use this example...., WPS is P1 to P1 GMAW process.

The WPS is only good for metals listed in P1 only.  All metals in P1 would fall under this WPS and can be welded together.

Welder takes a test using this WPS and uses P1 material for the test.

Welder passes the test and is qualified to weld P1 metals to each other?  And not to be confused with QW-423.1 and allowed all the p numbers listed under "qualified production base metals"??
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-05-2016 02:50
I do not understand what you are asking.

Impact testing variables have no reflection on qualification of the welder.
Parent - - By PFI (**) Date 03-06-2016 15:21
Yes, I know that, that's for the PQR/WPS

I'm questioning a few things ....

WPS #100 is for A36 to A36 (p1) as I read it that WPS is only good for metals listed under p1?

Second question ...

Welder performs test for WPS #100 (above) he uses A36 to A36, he is qualified for welding metals listed under P1?
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-06-2016 18:56
The WPS has no reflection on the range of qualification of the welder. It must meet the variable ranges used for testing except for the allowances for substitution of materials AND in must meet the requirements for the variable used in production.

The welder may use the WPS during testing however he/she may not be able to weld on production joints using that same WPS if the ranges required for the production joint are outside his/her range of qualification .

The ranges of qualification can be seen in QW403.18. I would suggest reviewing that para.
Parent - - By PFI (**) Date 03-06-2016 21:40
Ok, I will review that.  What about my first question?
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-07-2016 02:44
Look at QW-453(for SMAW but the same for others) then QW-403.18 then QW-423 and that should answer your original question.
Parent - - By PFI (**) Date 03-08-2016 17:54
QW-453 relates to hard facing and corrosion resistance, does not apply in this case.

QW-453 relates to alternate base material for welder qualification ( this is think is where some confusion is coming from, the prowrite software i'm using seems to apply this to an expanded welder qualification, unless i'm getting this wrong?  It is applying a range of P-1-P15 etc, when the welder tests P1 to P1.  So using the example above WPS #100 a Welder performs a test to WPS #100 and the qualifying range for the welder is P1 - P15 etc.  Now this could mean that the welder that qualifies P1 to P1 successfully would be qualified to all materials listed in section QW-453 but only as long as the company has PQR/WPS in those materials??

QW-403.18 - now this is what i saw that would limit the PQR/WPS to only the P#'s tested
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-08-2016 18:29
Sorry.  QW 353. The table for to process variables for performance qualification.
Parent - - By PFI (**) Date 03-09-2016 11:42
Ahh, so it points you to QW-403.18, I have been here before, that tells you that the p-number is an essential variable EXCEPT as permitted in QW-423 and in QW-420.

QW-423 has the chart that allows welders that successfully tested on P1 material to be qualified to weld on P1-P15F, P34 and P41-49
Ok, this is very clear to me now, so with that said .....

A welder qualified as above is qualified to weld on all WPS's that encompass the P-numbers above???  

Example:

WPS #100 (P1 to P1) - he is qualified
WPS #101 (p8 to p8) - he is qualified
WPS #102 (P15F to P34) - he is qualified
WPS #102 (P1 to P8) - he is qualified

Of course all other paramenters the same and within essential variables, just talking base metal.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-09-2016 12:42
That is correct. A welder is qualified to weld on a joint using ANY WPS that is also qualified that joint. Both the welder and the WPS must be used within their respective ranges of qualification.

I personally try to avoid indicating a welder is qualified for a WPS since the ranges allowed by a WPS may greatly exceed the range for which the welder is qualified.

Glad you got what you needed. Have a great day.

Gerald Austin
Greeneville Tn
Parent - - By PFI (**) Date 03-09-2016 14:28
Gerald,

Thank you very much for helping me work through this, you gave me a wealth of knowledge!!  Please let me know if I can help you someday.

Have a great day my friend
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-09-2016 20:03
Glad it helped Fred.
Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / Need help with Base metal qualification

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