New Closed Forum

By 522029

Date 07-11-2016 00:45

Thank you for sharing. Ever since this forum was "improved" a few months ago, the participation has dwindled to a very low rate. Hardly worth visiting. A few exceptions do exist.

Griff

By electrode (***)

Date 07-11-2016 12:21

Northweldor;

I seem to recall that I was maybe appearing rude to you in conjunction to a technical debate we had some considerable while ago.

Reading your message (thanks for sharing the information by the way) and although a foreign AWS member - admittedly not as frequently participating in this forum as I actually wish though - I shall want to apologise if I may have offended you in any respect.

If you'd been under the impression, note that it was not my intention.

What a pity if AWS would take the same worn-out path like "all other organisations" did - thereby much likely transmuting this honestly excellent forum into something mean. For me it was actually this "small fraction of individuals" that have made this welding forum ... unique.

Anyway. As I say; if I was rude, please accept my apologies. At the end of the day we're all hooked to welding no matter where we are from.

All the best and God bless!

By Northweldor (***)

Date 07-11-2016 17:32

Electrode:

No apology needed, and no offense taken! I thought we had some kind of miscommunication, and, have continued to read and respond to your informed posts and reasoned European perspective. I will miss your opinions in the future.

As Mr. Nieves has implied above, and as other welding organizations have demonstrated, corporate utility, efficiency, and profitability will govern the changes, rather than the free exchange and testing of ideas among any individuals sharing the same interest that has characterized this forum in the past.

The best to you in the future!

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 07-11-2016 17:53

I'm unhappy too about how this is looking, but going to wait and see a bit.

"corporate utility, efficiency, and profitability"

Should not be the focus driving a non-profit.

By electrode (***)

Date 07-12-2016 09:23

Thanks for the kind response, Northweldor - I really appreciate.

Regards!

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 07-11-2016 14:38

I myself am interested in the beta testing to see if it may be a useable forum. I think other than the spam and lack of moderation of members (Validate Email Addresses, Moderate 1st posts for approval etc..) that this forum is the best. I also like eng-tips and a few others.

I too think limiting it to AWS members will be a limiting factor but we will find out. The true error on the part of AWS will be if they do not somehow archive this forum for searching purposes.

Since many have contributed and AWS has claimed "ownership" of the contents, I am a bit troubled by the whole thing.

We will see how it goes.

Gerald

By 803056

Date 07-11-2016 19:11

I like the open approach of the existing Forum. I do see a problem with the lack of oversight by AWS, i.e., spammers having free reign. What happened to moderators removing errant posts?

I will give the new site a chance, but time will tell.

If it doesn't meet our needs, it will fail like many other sites. If they are using Link-In as a model, it will fail. Rarely do I find the discussions on Link-In worth joining. Miller, visited once or twice. Didn't care for the format or the subjects of discussion. Engineering Tips, better than the others.

Al

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 07-11-2016 19:36

I just logged in this afternoon to the new "beta-site"

Swam around a little and dropped a post to test.

There is some nice functionality... Fonts, highlighting, subscripts, color for text etc. Easy to attach a file.

Dunno how things like topically related materials will end being sorted... Just gonna wait and see.

By kcd616

Date 07-11-2016 20:38

Al, Lawrence
agreed
talked to Alfred on the phone this morning
voiced that IMHO
is better to be inclusive, than exclusive
just my thoughts
sincerely,
Kent

By HJLBX Date 07-12-2016 06:23

Required membership = $ - which is a requirement for all things AWS related.

The critical point that is missed by the AWS powers-that-be is that the vast majority of AWS members have no inclination to participate at this nor any other on-line forum.

By making this forum members-only, that measure is just going to kill the forum by greatly reducing participation.

In fact, compared to the past, participation has already been falling - and apparently - this forum is already dying a slow death.

The value here is the content provided by participants. If there is little participation, then there is no value.

By 803056

Date 07-12-2016 13:27

Agreed.

Al

By kcd616

Date 07-12-2016 14:50

this new forum is already
getting on my nerves
asking for way to much personal information :eek:

asking me to do things, daily tasks :roll:

make contact with 3 others?????????
I barely want to make contact with the little woman and I live with her :wink:

I do NOT work well with others :razz:

let alone follow rules and go with a program :evil:

I am going to try to make this work
I learn alot from people on this forum :cool:

just my thoughts
sincerely,
Kent

By anieves (*)

Date 07-12-2016 15:03

Hi Kent,

I totally get what you're saying. The daily tasks are intended more for those who have never had experience in a forum type environment. Please feel free to break away and do your own thing. The main thing I'm looking for is to test the functionality before going live. Ignore the rest.

Alfred

By Trackergd (**)

Date 07-12-2016 16:01

Kent,

Is the new forum still in Beta testing? Have not seen any links to take a look at it.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-12-2016 23:14

Beta Testing started on July 11 and goes for a couple of weeks. It won't be available for other use for a while yet.

Brent

By Stringer (***)

Date 07-13-2016 23:02

This will be brought to us by the same people who oversee the AWS Journal? Because that thing is a total fail.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 07-14-2016 00:57

I'd have to disagree with you but of course we are both just offering opinions. It has gotten a little heavier in advertising over the years but I find it as a pretty good resource. I also have thoughts about it, but not "fails"

I personally would like to see information geared towards the welder as opposed to management and supervision however I understand who their customer is. Its Industry as a whole and not the welder. Sometimes the "American Welder" articles seem a bit abstract however it could be me being out of touch with whats really happening in industry.

Another thing I would love to see is actual reviews of products and equipment. Not just an article that looks like its talking about some new process but is actually pushing a specific manufacturers equipment for super duper dynamic pulse glob circuit welding.

What ways do you think it fails ?

Have a good day

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-14-2016 01:46

Stringer, I know I have a rep for supporting AWS but hear me out for a minute:

The Welding Journal is published to meet the needs of around 80,000 members. Many of those are teachers, researchers, engineers, company owners, inspectors, welders, students, etc. What is the percentage of each? I don't know. Not sure how easy it would be to find out.

Now, here is one thing I do know, you, me, anyone may submit an article for review and publishing to the Journal. I do it in the Inspections Trends fairly often. If we want more articles geared to the welders, write one. Want more articles geared to codes, write one. Want more articles geared toward safety, write one. Or, encourage someone else who has time and resources to do so.

Often we as welders feel left out because all these engineers and other people with big salaries and someone who is looking at it from a publicity, advertising, promotional standpoint behind them prompting them to write about some item or another.

I echo Gerald's question: In what way do you feel it is a fail? While it isn't really up to me to answer to their support, I may be able to do so but only if you are willing to listen and have a fair discussion about it. We can all cast stones. There are things I am upset at with Miami, but I send a message to someone who can change things or just live with it depending upon how important it is to me.

So, can we have a discussion? Or, ... maybe not. I'm willing.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By Stringer (***)

Date 07-14-2016 22:26

I'm educable. What I see are the worst examples of art I've ever seen (pandering to the eight kids on the dodgeball podium crowd), two dozen pictures of what looks like rock and gem clubs pot-lucks, and an incredible lack of depth when they do tackle a process. The microfracture science in the back is cool for metallurgists, but is decidedly over the head of most welders. And new gloves in every picture.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-14-2016 22:51

I agree with the main points you make.

Now, it does depend upon the issue, some times the schedule is to promote students and their projects. Then, every issue has the 'Sections' dept which updates everyone on what other sections are doing, exhorting everyone to be busy and giving them ideas on what members want for meetings.

On occasion, the lack of depth is as explained when I said basically that 'anyone' can submit an article. Some are not done real exhaustive and many times without much funding so only scratch the surface especially for seasoned welders who are looking for more.

It is interesting, regardless of if I think on Spiritual things, welding things, inspecting things, ...the older and more experienced I get, the more shallow, and even worthless at times, the opinions and experiences of others appears to me. BUT, I need to learn how to listen, and then encourage them to higher levels of accomplishment and remember that I can always stand to be reminded of things I already learned and that I don't know everything and can learn something new even from the most basic of presentations.

All of those negatives you list, that's the frustration of an experienced person who wants to be challenged but sees so little of it because you have already been there and done that. We will have fewer times of being personally challenged the longer we go and need to see what we can do for others instead of what they can do for us.

New gloves, LOL, yeah, but remember, many pictures are staged by suppliers especially when schools and other interests are involved. Brand new fall protection, safety glasses, hard hats, hoods, grinders, etc. But, I'd rather see them with the correct gear on when the pic would indicate its' need instead of posing for a pic with no gear and setting a wrong example for others.

I must say, when I look at the format and content of the Welding Journal and the Inspection Trends magazines, I feel they are a pretty high quality and pretty informative, even if not real deep all the time, compared to other trades magazines I have seen. But, there I go with personal opinion.

I would like to challenge YOU to write and article and send it in to the editors for publication. Really, not being funny or belittling or whatever. I'm sure you could think of something. Sometimes our own favorite or pet peeve issues make the best subject matter and it is always amazing to me how many respond to my articles and how my pet peeve strikes a chord with them. If you are unsure about a subject, send a short explanation draft to Al, myself, Mary Ruth at the magazine, and we will give you our opinion and some direction. Mary Ruth is the greatest. She totally makes my look better than I really am. And I know Al feels the same way. Great editor.

One more, yes, I see an overbalance of promotional advertising both for paid ads and for AWS activities of late compared to the volume of actual articles. But, that is how they pay the bills. Each dept must come up with it's own survival income in order to justify its' existence and opportunity to serve the membership. Yes, in some ways it is about the money. It takes money to survive in this economy and lots of it. I wish I could actually spend time showing you some of the opportunities and values available and even to take you to some to see if I couldn't change your mind on some points. Not all, because I even have some I disagree with.

They, AWS, are not perfect. But, I think they serve us pretty well all things considered.

Anything else? Please, let me know if I can defuse your frustration even a little bit.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day, Brent

By Trackergd (**)

Date 07-15-2016 11:58

I see many of the points Stringer is making. I have much the same arguments with Quality Progress from the ASQ. It is all geared to major corporations with an army of inspectors and huge equipment budgets...almost nothing for the lone inspector jammed into some forgotten corner in a small company with a surface plate, calipers and a height gauge.

That said, I wait for my issue to arrive every month with a degree of anticipation, read it cover to cover and then put it on the table the welders sit at in the lunch room where within a week it is dog eared from intense review, then taken home by one of them for reference.

While there is a LOT of ads and at least one PHD level analysis article, there is usually at least one "gem" for those of us who have a "BS in BS", like the fact we found our ideal TIG gloves in an ad.

By Trackergd (**)

Date 07-15-2016 11:31 Edited 07-15-2016 12:23

I am also of the opinion that the content of the current forum and of the new one should be at least visible and searchable by non-members.

There is also a fair argument for not making the forum closed, that being that in many cases the questions posted here have evoked responses from members that include the hard learned lessons of analysis and corrective action with regard to disconinuities, shielding gas, technique, fill etc, that in many cases were learned at great expense and frequent failure. For want of a better description, this forum has become a "go to" for companies and individuals who do not have the resources to diagnose complex and unusual welding issues, more so when welding may only be a small part of or "one time occurrence" in their overall processes.

When you think of the combined years of experience represented here, many of them learned at the knee of the greats of the Welding, CWI and CWE world, it seems a real shame to hold it hostage for membership fees. The knowledge is freely shared here by members who genuinely wish to help and encourage others worldwide.

By anieves (*)

Date 07-15-2016 13:28

Noted....and I agree with you

By kcd616

Date 07-16-2016 01:31

Alfred,
when it comes to knowledge
better to be inclusive then exclusive
share the knowledge
and not for a price :eek:

you share knowledge and information with your peers
for peer review, and to have more knowledge added on
just my thoughts
sincerely,
Kent
P.S. read some of my past posts, I am all for making $$$$$$$$$$$
but sometimes what you give away comes back many times over

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 07-15-2016 13:59

You really said that well.

"hostage" data.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 07-15-2016 17:31

I think the new forum with maybe some pinnned posts reminding users of the content here would be great.

However with membership of any group, there should be "perks". The welding Journal for instance is often avaialable to Non-Members online for free. What is left....book discounts...seminar discounts....access to a section library (easier said than done).

I do truly hope this forum stays searchable. I beleive with a few moderators and utilization of the features available through the Mwforum scripts, this forum could function as-is for quite awhile. The only problem I see with it is the Spam and thats something that a few moderators could handle by instantle deletinng users that post anything not welding related.

Back to work for me. Have agreat day.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-15-2016 23:07

Well said sir and I am in agreement personally.

I notice that Alfred acknowledged your points as well and that will be key.

Brent

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 07-18-2016 03:36

I am new to all of this AWS Stuff !! I think I will sit and watch ! I usually get into trouble when I get rolling on an Issue !

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 07-18-2016 08:51

Get Rolling Cactus... How much trouble can you get in anyhow?

It appears they are going to close the information in this forum to non-members.

In essence this means that people ***will be charged a fee*** to have access to the information, advice and guidance that we have been very ***Purposefully giving away for free*** for over a decade.

1) We can take our toys and go home in protest. Nobody profits from this

2) We can climb on board and let AWS charge people for access to our work... (yes it's our work) AWS and members profit.

3) We can appeal to AWS one last time, to keep the style of forum relatively similar, so that people from around the world may access it, ask questions, debate, share, network with the top professionals in the field... ***Enhanced by virtue of all the good stuff that has been incorporated into the newer Beta format.***

I accept AWS leveraging my volunteer talent, effort, experience and time for my work on various committees over the years... (D.17, Educators Subcommittee on SENSE, D1. Certification, & D1.3..

I'm not so sure I will accept the same for this forum if it is made exclusive for members.

Not the attitude I approve of in a Not for Profit Enterprise.

By kcd616

Date 07-18-2016 15:16

I think they just lost me today
I wanted to give the new forum a chance
but a scavenger hunt :eek:

is my spelling and grammar that poor :red:

that I am mistaken for a 14 year old at summer camp :eek:

(side note wish I had the liver of a 14 y.o. only drink half as much as I did :wink:

)
the writing is on the wall
I will ride this to the bitter end
but I think I see it from here
AWS look and see, this forum is nothing without the posters
just servers, storage and bandwidth
and it is all useless without the quality posts
look and see
Dwayne and Kaye make posts
Kaye @ Bills welding one of the best and most respected in the business
Al Moore same thing
your losing the only real assert this forum has
I am not telling you how to run your business
(but maybe I should :evil:

)
step back and see the forest not the trees
just my thoughts
sincerely,
Kent
P.S.: love to hear my very good friend Henry's thoughts on this, also Glyn has been absent

By anieves (*)

Date 07-18-2016 15:56

Kent,

These small exercises that I send out are geared towards those individuals that are not familiar with a forum environment. There are 270 other beta-testers in this community and another 500 Student beta testers in another community that are new to this. You can disregard any exercises or emails that you feel would not be helpful to you.

The main goal of this 2 week beta test is to make sure all of the features of this platform are working. I'm trying to get the others who are not active involved.

Have a great day

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 07-18-2016 21:23

I know I already posted this but I am doing it again in hopes that you READ it. And Yes, I have a lot of Diamonds because I USED to post a TREMENDOUS Amount before the Spam took over our Forum.

The SAD thing is, That AWS does not realize, is that we ALL have helped people on the Forum. ALL OF US !! Some of those people were on the fence about the trade in the first place and WE help them with their decision....FOR FREE !!!! Myself, I have hired many Guys from this Forum...FOR FREE ! I NEVER ask for anything in Return and did my best to help them. As you said Lawrence, this is OUR Work !! Not the Desk Jockey Pencil Pushers ! Damn I miss The old days on here when we could feel that we did some good !! WE work hard to develop our Skill Set, WHY should AWS get paid for what WE ALL Provide ?

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 07-20-2016 00:11

AMEN.
M.G.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 07-18-2016 20:35

Kent, visit the off topic forum...regarding our friend Henry

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 07-18-2016 21:19

The SAD thing is, That AWS does not realize, is that we ALL have helped people on the Forum. ALL OF US !! Some of those people were on the fence about the trade in the first place and WE help them with their decision....FOR FREE !!!! Myself, I have hired many Guys from this Forum...FOR FREE ! I NEVER ask for anything in Return and did my best to help them. As you said Lawrence, this is OUR Work !! Not the Desk Jockey Pencil Pushers ! Damn I miss The old days on here when we could feel that we did some good !! WE work hard to develop our Skill Set, WHY should AWS get paid for what WE ALL Provide ?

By Sourdough (****)

Date 08-24-2016 13:25

Cactus says he's helped many guys by hiring them.....but he failed to mention that after hiring them, he screwed them...

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 08-27-2016 11:41

Well, I see you are still an Idiot. Only ONE guy I have ever had a Problem with and he was FIRED and refused to believe it. He is also YOUR Buddy ! Hmmmm................Birds of a Feather.............