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- - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-15-2016 23:31
Okay, so by now most everyone has heard at least something about the new AWS forum.  And, the fact that it is for AWS Members Only.

Makes me curious how to stand on this, so, I wanted to find out:

How many of the users of this forum are Non-Members and what are your thoughts on this change to the forum?

Many of you, though not real active of late, are still lurking out there and pop up on occasion and if you know someone who isn't around much let them know about this thread.

I'm sure Alfred will see this and may even chime in and that some have already expressed some very good points in a couple of other threads.  I just thought I would try to make a direct compiling of opinions and numbers on who we have here.

This has been a great go to resource for a lot of welders, students, managers, inspectors for years.  Not sure exactly how the new forum will operate but you need to let your voice be heard if you value this forum and have reservations or monetary reasons for not being an AWS member.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By waqasmalik (**) Date 07-16-2016 05:39
Im not an AWS member, i have benifitted a lot from this forum. I want it to remain as it is
Parent - - By Mwccwi (***) Date 07-16-2016 12:38
I am an AWS member and I have been participating in the forum since 2004. I don't comment very often but I catch up read at least weekly. I find the forum and excellent learning tool and I use the search function as a research tool. I am concerned that with the proposed new forum change may cause the form to loose it usefulness. Of all of the AWS Member benefits the forum is not listed as one, but to me It is the best benefit. The Welding Journal and the member discount pail in comparison to the current forum as Member benefits. I even had some of my posts mentioned in the Welding Journal. I hope the change to the forum don't change my opinion as it may cause me to drop membership.
Parent - By waqasmalik (**) Date 07-16-2016 12:52
I use the search function of this forum as welding search engine where one can find information about everything related to welding. Im not an Aws memeber but a member of this forum since 2015. I have taken tonns of knowledge in one year either by searching or posting my own question. This knowledge has enabled me to do my work in much better way and built safer, reliable, cost effective, high quality products for people.
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-17-2016 18:23
I have been an AWS Member since 86 off and on and a member here since 2001 ish according to my profile. There have been years in which I gained NOTHING from my AWS membership other than welding journals. There has NEVER been a year go buy that I didn't gain something from this forum.

I do feel bad that I MAY have used the forum during times when my AWS Membership dues were not paid.

Brent,
We used to be able to create a survey using the forum software but it looks to be disabled now. You could post a similar question on an online form if the responses get numerous.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-18-2016 11:09
I joined the forum before I was a member, I am a member because of the forum.
As Gerald stated, I have learned more through this forum than through the Welding Journal...in fact, I have Welding Journals that are still in the plastic shipping sleeve.
Parent - By Blaster (***) Date 07-18-2016 14:26
I am a member.  I think that this tiny forum would be even smaller if "members only".  I wouldn't plan to go drop out, but I would hate to lose any expertise that is currently on the forum.

Side note, I think it is odd that the industry's professional forum does not have at least several hundred, or even a few thousand active forum members.
Parent - By KBNY (**) Date 07-18-2016 14:54
I am a member of AWS, but I disagree that this forum should be for members only. I've read and searched this forum long before I actively started using it and I've used it in times when my AWS membership was not up to date. I cannot see how it would be anywhere as useful or active without it being open to the general public.
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-21-2016 20:12
I just got the AWS members email about "Something Big Coming"
"The AWS Member Network, exclusively for AWS Members"

*sigh*
Parent - By PlasmaHead2 (***) Date 07-24-2016 02:03
I have had a customer at work hand me an article written by a fourm member and tell me that I should read it, I believe it was about measuring fillet welds :grin:
I tell every other welder I work with/meet (that seem like they actually care about what they are trying to do) about this forum and that they should stop by and at least lurk for a while.
The reason I joined the AWS was to get the journal.
I remember finding this forum because of the "T joint boogie" thread almost by accident.
I can't count the beers/sodas owed to various forum members for their knowledge and wisdom...
To make people pay to be a part of this fourm would destroy it and be a loss for everyone.

I miss the older days of this fourm...
-Clif
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-25-2016 22:43
I have been contributing and reading this forum for a decade. My membership lapsed, as I don't actively use any AWS resources right now... well save for this forum.

I'm bummed to see this change.
Parent - By WeldorJoe (*) Date 07-27-2016 21:42
I am a long time member and there always seems to be goofy things going on that I, for the most part, get through the muck for the better cause.
Great information that I have seen on this forum has been extremely valuable.
I never complain about ads or spam because I believe I can live with that for the things I have learned.
The greater good.
Joel
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-16-2016 16:57
I'm a Life Member of AWS, but I'm not in favor of a closed forum and doubt I will participate in a closed forum.

Al
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 07-17-2016 14:00
Al,
I agree
and keep stressing the fact
more participation equals more knowledge
be inclusive, not exclusive
sincerely,
Kent
- - By CWI555 (*****) Date 07-16-2016 17:56
It will die on the vine by excluding none members. Open forums only need moderation, not an axe.
Parent - By mcostello (**) Date 07-17-2016 02:54
I am a rod burners and grinder wannabe. The amount of information gleaned from here is impressive. I  would miss the use of the forum
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 07-17-2016 14:01
Gerald,
agreed
sincerely,
Kent
- - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-17-2016 15:30 Edited 07-17-2016 15:34
Thanks guys,  keep the comments coming please. 

While on one hand, I do not object to a section where only AWS members could have some conversations, or, two totally separate forums, I don't understand any reasons other than money for why it would be TOTALLY members only with no access for new members, students, and those who can't afford membership.  Yes, there are welders, inspectors who can't afford membership.  They live pay check to pay check in this messed up economy and that is a luxury afford those with other priorities and sometimes better pay.

There have been many great conversations, questions, and debates begun and participated in by non-members.  They have added much of the value in resources, knowledge, experience, and value to this forum with its' vast database of information.

Please, others of you, especially non-members who are somewhat and/or really regular, speak up.

Brent
Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 07-17-2016 20:56
Brent, I joined in 2006 and last Sept. I was laid off and I decided to go ahead and start my retirement so I thought that member ship fee would be needed else where. I think it should remain open to all that is seeking help, I though that's was what it was for. I know it has help me in the past and I would like you think everyone help that is still with us and one's that or no loner with us.

       M.G.

I still check in every now and then and hope I can continue to do so.
Parent - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 07-18-2016 03:30
I am a AWS Member and have been active on this page, More so in the Past before all of the Spam ads on here. I see NOTHING Wrong with Non Members being here. It gives them a reason to WANT to join to help expand their Knowledge. My Opinion ? AWS is turning 100% Corporate Dollar Signs and nothing else matters ! It has been headed that way for a Long time now. I would LOVE to see this Forum turn back time a few years !
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-18-2016 11:05
I am an AWS member.

"there are welders, inspectors who can't afford membership.  They live pay check to pay check in this messed up economy and that is a luxury afford those with other priorities and sometimes better pay".   Well stated Sir.

I will also add that small mom and pop shops, startups and individuals in nations where the technology we share is simply not available benefit from the advice given here.  They are also not going to, or perhaps (in more repressive nations) may not be permitted to pay for membership.

I have gained immeasurable information in the short time I have been participating.

We are exhorted daily to be players on the global stage, yet now we are going to withhold information?  Seems a contradiction between word and deed.
Parent - By peterj357 (*) Date 07-18-2016 18:15
I am a member and I have used this forum for answers to questions long before the handful of times I have made any comments. 

This is off of AWS's homepage...

"Advancing the science, technology, and application of welding and allied joining and cutting processes worldwide: that’s our mission and it’s why we exist. Whether you’re here to explore membership, certification, advanced training, updated standards, conferences, professional collaborations or the many exciting career opportunities in welding today – we are here to support you. Count on AWS for the leading-edge industry knowledge, resources and tools you need to achieve even greater business and career success"

I think closing the forum from non-members will not only be hurting the welding community, but is also contradictory to AWS statements.  By closing the forum to non-members, AWS will no longer be providing the platform "here to support" a large portion of the welding community that turns to this forum for help.

This from the "About" section from the AWS website...

"The American Welding Society (AWS) was founded in 1919, as a nonprofit organization with a global mission to advance the science, technology and application of welding and allied joining and cutting processes, including brazing, soldering and thermal spraying. AWS strives to move the industry forward in both thought and action, as well as inspire new generations to see the exciting career opportunities available today."

Again, limiting this forum to members only will limit the flow of information available to people in this industry.  It seems pretty shady for a non-profit Society that claims it's interests are "here to support you" and "strives to move the industry forward in both thought and action" to limit access to only those who have paid there dues.

The search function of this forum, and the questions asked and ensuing discussions are very helpful and if that were to be prohibited to a demographic that use this forum because of $$, I think that's a shame and discredit to AWS.

So... long story short, I don't think it's a good idea to lose the information in this current forum, nor do I think it is a good choice to have this forum open only to AWS members.
- - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-18-2016 00:10
I am hoping that Alfred will see this Monday morning when he starts work and that AWS will reconsider this totally closed forum idea.  I didn't realize at first that it was headed that way.  I like some of the things that I see on the beta test format but this is one aspect that troubles me. 

We need all the voices we can get to contribute to this.

Brent
Parent - By waqasmalik (**) Date 07-18-2016 03:12
One gets very valuable, to the point, proven, relevant, experienced information from the memebers of this forum. There are many which cant afford memberships so they will be deprived of from the standarized way of doing work. Welding world could be unsafe because of lack of knowledge. Not all of the members here on this forum are from developed countries where they one can get very good professional trainings of welding which assure the quality and reliability of product. Many of them wont also afford the expenses of training. By making the forum for aws members only can corner the welding industry of underdeveloped countries like mine. Also the interaction between the experts and  students, novice engineers, novice inspectors is very important for experts themselves. The kind of questions and issues raised by novices are very unique and mostly they present a challenge to experts either in the way to search for it or thinking of the way to make novice understand. Most people new to welding are likely to be non members. The closing of this forum will damage them the most.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-18-2016 12:13
Lets face it. This is nothing but a despicable way for AWS to try and extort more revenue. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IMPROVING THE FORUM!!!!
And perhaps those who are in charge of this forum do not care for my participation to continue but I can tell you this, I WILL NOT PAY to use this forum.
Actually I wanted to use much stronger terms but chose not to.
For now.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-18-2016 12:18
Somebody let me know when this is planned to start for I will have one last thing to say.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-18-2016 11:15
Can you say "money"?

Al
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-18-2016 12:17
Sadly this may be true Al.

I am reminded of the time where I was considered an expert in a particular field of forensic science and was approached by the ASTM as they were going to write a standard covering the methodology and certification standards.  I found out quickly that they not only wanted me to write the standard for them (that they were going to charge for), but they also were going to charge me for the pleasure of writing the standard.  If I did not wish to participate, they were going to write it without me (with no knowledge of their own on how to do it) and I would be forced to comply with their standard.  I pretty much told them to pound sand and went rogue.  Over 30 years later I still perform this service to Search and Rescue and Law Enforcement here in PA and surrounding states.

I would be disheartened to see the AWS headed down the same path, at least with regard to the new forum.
Parent - - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-18-2016 12:21
"About AWS

Advancing the science, technology, and application of welding and allied joining and cutting processes worldwide: that’s our mission and it’s why we exist
"

One would wonder how we advance the science of welding worldwide if we exclude those who by financial hardship or repressive governments cannot gain membership?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-18-2016 13:05
Excellent observations.

Al
Parent - By waqasmalik (**) Date 07-18-2016 13:06
BTW what will be cost of membership of AWS?
- By Don56 (**) Date 07-18-2016 19:33
I am a 26 year AWS Member.  I have learned much from this forum, and hopefully helped others as well.  AWS is dedicated (supposedly) to the advancement of welding as a non profit organization.  Betterment of anything requires the free flow of information.  AWS can make money from dues, advertising in the journal, and the fees it charges its CWI's.  International participation in this forum is beneficial to all of us who participate in it.  Young people with limited means can learn from it.  AWS membership should not be a requirement to participate.  By providing this open forum to the world AWS is getting alot of advertising at minimal cost.  Many people volunteer to sit on the committees that write the standards AWS publishes.  AWS can give a little back.
- By Dreizehn (*) Date 07-18-2016 20:30
I'm not an AWS member.

I can't count how many times I've sat here in awe of the knowledge some of these individuals have. It's something I aspire to have one day, and I feel like this forum actually encourages that. I got thrust into a QC Manager position with literally zero experience. The bosses saw something I suppose, but in no way would I have made it this far without this forum. Given, I haven't been a forum member for long, but what I have extracted from here has not only made me more knowledgeable, it has saved my job on a couple occasions.

I, for one, hope this switch to members only doesn't happen.
- - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-18-2016 23:21
Thanks guys, anyone else?  Please keep responding. 

Been a busy day and I wasn't able to get on line until I got down to Phoenix on my day? Night? whatever time job. 

I will make sure Alfred and others see this.  There are some great story lines here on how helpful the OPEN forum has been. 

Brent
Parent - - By dick (**) Date 07-19-2016 00:53
I have been a nonmember, for around a year. I have learned a lot and appreciate the search function, and the help from the other who participate and take the time, to help others. Thanks everyone. I am now a member now, waiting for confirmation on my seminar and exam. Please keep it open.

Dick
Parent - - By mechan (**) Date 07-19-2016 01:09
I am an AWS member, and first started on the forum prior to being a member. Browsing the forum contributed to my desire to get my CWI and the information on the forum has assisted me a number of times in my career.

I feel that fee based forums are a failed model and it would be a very poor idea. I agree with the statement about may be a portion of this forum being for "members", but even that to me is a stretch.
Parent - - By Joey (***) Date 07-19-2016 08:30
I'm an AWS member since 1994, my membership automatically renewed every renewal of my welding inspector certfication.
In the past there were those 3.2, nantong, Shane Feder actively involved in this forum. They maybe non members and could be CSWIP holder based in Europe, Aus, etc. but their sharing of experience and contribution to the forum were excellent for info / discussion.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-19-2016 12:25
Yes Joey,

Yourself, the Men you mentioned, Electrode, Stephan Eggerland and many others are often the very best responders to complex technical questions of both compliance and process.

I'm so grateful you fellows are involved and always look forward to learning from you.   The perspective you bring as non-U.S. or Expat professionals are super valuable to me and I'm sure many others.

You look at things in a different way and approach things in a different way...  Often a better way.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-19-2016 19:18
I second Lawrence's comments and thank you for your response here also.

Brent
Parent - By Joey (***) Date 07-20-2016 07:44
Thanks Lawrence and Brent. It’s a honor to interact with you all, and to get heard and noticed are awesome for someone like me living in a third world country, where many of inspectors can’t afford the AWS membership fee:cry:.
Brent you’re the defender of the poor in this forum. Keep it up!:grin::lol:
- - By psnort (*) Date 07-19-2016 21:23
I have been an AWS member for a long time. I have been reading this forum for many years. I believe the knowledge shared here is invaluable and there is nothing else like it. The expertise is so broad, and often comes from folk who have no very good reason to be AWS members. I don't just learn about code or technique or interesting cracking here, I also get tips on repairing my 50 year old SA200. I want this forum to be as broad as possible and can see no advantage at all in limiting participation. And of course, I hope we don't lose all the information that is part of this board.

Peter
Parent - - By waqasmalik (**) Date 07-20-2016 12:58
Its been one year since i joined. You guys can imagine how much knowledge i have gained from this forum. My one year experience is equivalent in knowledge to my colleagues having 6 to 7 year working experience. All my seniors are amazed at how this guy has reduced porosity and lack of fusion in aluminum welding to a level which they were never able to acheive. Some of them are trained in welding, some have masters degree in engineering. But they could not solve the problems regarding aluminum welding which i did. Only because of 803056, lawrence, henry, brent and mighty search function.
Not only in aluminum welding but also in stainless steel, carbon steel and other welding engineering issues i have learned a lot lot from here. Whatever i leraned here from you guys i told it to others.
Nobody in my company except me was aware of this forum before i joined. The kind of approach here in third world countries followed is diffrent from you guys. Mostly there is an hit and trial approach. No concept of WPS and WPQ. I learned from here and told it to everyone. I would be affected alot if this forum closes.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-20-2016 13:39
Best, most profound post on this thread.  Right above
Parent - By SCOTTN (***) Date 07-20-2016 14:28
So many that access this once great OPEN forum are not AWS members, including me. Maybe this is an attempt to get rid of all the advertisers because of the associated cost of becoming a member. Maybe it's a way to generate income at the expense of those who either come here seeking answers, or those trying to help others. Maybe it's a combination of the three. Regardless, I seriously doubt that I will participate in this forum, should it become "members only".
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 07-20-2016 14:57
waqasmalik, I have had the exact same experience, because of this forum.  Well put Sir.
- By KenK (*) Date 07-22-2016 19:30
I have only recently discovered this forum during my studying for CWI and was amazed that in a for profit world there was such a resource that was free of charge not to mention the camaraderie that is evident amongst those who participate. The people in here give so freely of their time and the knowledge they spent years accumulating merely to advise persons such as myself who have no other resource to turn to it will truly be a sad day if this resource is taken away from people who like myself will be flying blind without it. So to hear people who I have come to respect just from reading what they have written over the years think of walking away will truly dilute this forum. So here is to AWS reading these comments from so many and reconsidering changing 1 of the best information sources out there or at least making it accessible to all and keeping within the spirit that it was originally created
- - By tim105 (**) Date 07-23-2016 08:55
I just wanted to thank everyone here for all the information and entertainment over the years that i've been coming to this site.
I'm not a member and highly doubt that i ever will be. AWS has decided that even a non profit can make a profit so the greed has taken over in the short term. I do believe that all the people that have shared information related to the welding industry have a right to claim it as intellectual property. Therefore AWS does not own it and the original poster should have the right to delete it if they chose to do so.
AWS will be promoting the new site as a wealth of information not available anywhere else on the internet.That means profit for them off of the people that have spent countless hours giving all this information willingly without asking for a dime!
For all the people that have posted information that was helpful to the public should either delete it or send a letter to AWS stating that they cannot share your intellectual property without your written permission whatsoever. If they want to share it, great! As long as there's compensation for the owner.
Parent - By Stringer (***) Date 07-23-2016 21:32
I'm a member. I've heard a lot of talk about being responsible with public safety as it regards to welding. Closed forum will not benefit public. Another example that this is just extortion.
- - By TRowe (*) Date 07-24-2016 01:04
Like some, I have only been a member for a short time (membership required for CWI) and have only used this forum within that short time period which became instrumental in that process. Not "feeling" like I have a lot of skin in the game, I have read many posts of those (non-members and members) who have been instrumental in the wealth of knowledge that is found in this forum. I have to agree with what I believe to be the vast majority posting on this change, that AWS may be making a mistake. I have come to realize that this forum is a great tool for the industry and the knowledge base found within this forum is paramount in comparison to any other "free" forum (if there is such a thing). I feel that making this a "members only" forum will diminish its usefulness to the industry and those seeking expert advise and direction, members or not.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" (Murphy's Law)

Todd
Parent - By qcrobert (***) Date 07-26-2016 21:09 Edited 07-27-2016 19:58
I've been a member, on & off, since I became an AWS CWI in 1992.

I have seen other forums (welding, recreation, motorcycle, etc) become stagnant when they changed to members only (or member dues to participate, post pix, etc.). 

Sadly I predict the AWS forum will face the same consequences and will not fully recover even if it reverts back to an open forum.

The knowledge I have gained here and passed along to others has been invaluable to me and indirectly has benefited mankind by making the world safer and more productive.

I will not be learning nor participating in a closed forum.  I wish to thank all the members of this, the best welding information forum in the world, for their unselfish sharing of knowledge.  I have benefited greatly.

Hope I continue to see your participation at www.eng-tips.com (an open forum with sections devoted to ASME, AWS & API).

Regards,
Robert Pendergrass
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Needing Responses from Members and Non-Members Using Forum
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