Welding cert FCAW Gas or No gas

Date 01-05-2007 02:39 Edited 01-05-2007 13:41

Answer to both questions: No, the essential variables have been changed. The processes you have indicated have different parameters, and there's no reciprocity between the two.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-05-2007 11:22

I didn't look back in D1.1:2004 at Table 4.11 which deals with the essential variables requiring recertification of welders, but in D1.1:2006 (and I don't think it has changed from previous years) the Table was renumbered to say Table 4.12 and gas/no gas is not an essential variable unless I've missed it. So with that said, Yes if the welder qualified on FCAW-gas shielded they are still qualified to weld with FCAW-self shielded and visa versa.

Fran, I agree with part of your statement because these two are different due to the essential variables for requalification of the (WPS)welding procedure(see Table 4.5(3)&(19)...but not for the welder, again, unless I missed something.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 01-05-2007 12:01

John.

Is this correct?

So if I'm a contractor working from a qualified procedure and want to change from Gas Shielded FCAW to Self Shielded FCAW I would need to requalify the procedure before I could put the change into production... If the procedure were Pre-qualified I would need to create a new Pre-qualified WPS to reflect the change in electrode type, and if an SWPS I would need to buy a new one of those as well.

But If I'm a welder working on the same job and have been qualified to the material and thickness range for the job, and the call for a change in filler wire (Gas Shielded to Self Shielded or visa/versa) comes, but no other changes are made, I'm still ok to continue working on the new WPS without further performance qualification testing. The change would be no more significant than changing from 100% C02 to 75/25.

This thread is a good question

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-05-2007 12:50

Lawrence,

The situations that you just described is exactly how I interpet those tables towards the poster's question.

(like I said, unless I'm, missing something)<---if I am, it wouldn't be the first time and most likely not the last ;-)

By jlborba Date 01-05-2007 16:08

That what I though, They cover the FCAW "gas or no gas" issue in PQR essential varible changes (table 4.5) but not in the welders qualification. The problem is many CWI's/County inspectors do not see a clear answer and then make a decision to keep it seperate. Is there anyone to call from AWS or reference material. I'm certfiying over 20 welders in the FCAW Dual shield process and want to make sure all cert are correct and that they don't have to take another cert test for FCAW self shield. THANKS.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-05-2007 16:24

AWS does have a way to receive an "official" answer, but be advised that the committee only meets a few times per year, as I understand it. If you go to the Annexes in the back of your D1.1, you will see an Annex O(in 2006) that will explain exactly how to submit a Techinical Inquiry to the committee for interpetation.<--there is a specific procedure to follow

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 01-05-2007 16:31 Edited 01-05-2007 16:34

As an option, you might contact Andrew Davis, Managing Director, Technical Services, 1-800-443-9353, Ext 466. Andrew can put you in touch with the responsible D1 Secretary for quicker input. Not sure if thats John Gayler or Brian McGrath but I believe its one or the other.

EDIT: Forum Administrators, it might be a really cool idea whenever someone refers to an AWS Staff Member if that posting could be sent to the appropriate staff member, what do you think? Once upon a time the Managing Director used to print these things out and pass them to the Engineers for response, I'm not sure if that practice remains in place, or not?

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-05-2007 16:41

I was hoping for more feedback from the forum on this, I certainly don't want to lead someone astray by missing something that maybe wasn't so obvious to me.

Comments?

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-05-2007 16:31

I realize that there are only "examples" of various forms in Annex N that can be adopted for your use, but if you notice the Welder Qualification Record....no mention of Table 4.5, it only mentions the variables listed in Table 4.12.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 01-05-2007 17:51

Table 4.12 in the 2006 does NOT list addition or deletion of shielding gas. The fact that there is no need for requalification is all the reference you need. Note that there is NO reference to FCAW-Self shielded being a different process than FCAW Gas Shielded as is indicated with GMAW Short Circuit.

This applies ONLY to performance qualification.

Have a nice day.

Gerald Austin

By jlborba Date 01-06-2007 03:41

Talk to AWS today and the FCAW process is defined by either using gas or no gas. If a welder is certifed for FCAW, he is then qualified for self shield or Dual shield. However he must have the correct WPS stating either self or dual shield.

Thanks for the help!!!

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 01-06-2007 15:37

I agree that it is DEFINED by that. It just has absolutely NOTHING to do with welder performance qualification.