how to run a proper overhead root pass with 1/8 E6010

Date 01-06-2007 14:38

Play with your heat. A lot of times you get scared of blowing a hole with too much heat. I say run it so hot that if you sneeze you will go right through your hot pass. Also the angle of your rod can be a key factor. What size gap and landing are you welding? Sometimes if your landing is not substantial enough you cant really stuff your rod right in there.

By weldment (*)

Date 01-06-2007 23:22

Thanks for the tip man. I'm putting about a 3'32 gap and 3'32 land on my bevel. I'm not getting enough penetration for some reason. It appears to about flush on the backside of my plate. Also, there is a lot of spatter on the backside as well. Are you dragging your rod or jacking it?

By Sourdough (****)

Date 01-06-2007 23:41

As a general rule I never drag rod unless I'm doing something in a hurry, (jet rod), like something in the yard that's oilfield overkill in the first place. A very good welder walked up behind me when I was welding on a coupon and pushed my hand and the arc went right through the schedule 80. He is the one who improved my pipe welding by leaps and bounds.

When you are putting in a root with 5p, you want to actually dig with your rod, and replace the material with that same rod. You really want a backward angle to your rod also. That will allow you to build up enough meat to really push through to the other side. Different guys have different technique, this just happens to work for me. Hope this helps you!

By weldment (*)

Date 01-07-2007 00:12

Sourdough, I appreciate the help ol buddy. I've been welding for around 16 years and been out of it for about 8 now. I started going to a school back in August so I could refresh myself and prepare to go back to work. Anyway, it's been taking me a little longer than what I anticipated to get my hand back, of course I'm a little bit older now too. Anyway, I've got to get the root pass in there good on Monday so I can be ready to move onto pipe which is where I need to be. It's really something how much you can forget over an 8 year period. I'll try what you''ve suggested on Monday and let you know how it goes. I have got to get on through this thing so I can get out there and make some money. Mama and the kids are so hungry now they've been knawing at the puddy in the windows here man! I know that now is a good time to be a welder because there is fixin to be a ton of work to be done out there. Thanks for the tips, greatley appreciated.

By Sourdough (****)

Date 01-07-2007 02:48

It's not "fixin'" to get busy, brother - IT IS RIGHT NOW!!! Pass that test and get er done, man! Highschool dropouts like me are getting well into the three digit mark yearly! This war has done what war always has, made work. Get it now, cause it aint lasting for ever if you know what I mean. . .

By Sourdough (****)

Date 01-07-2007 02:51 Edited 01-07-2007 03:03

What amperage are you running with that 1/8? You really need at least 92 to get good penetration. Also, I really like a large gap, usually just under 1/8". I use the same land as well. Try it, and let me know how it goes with your test. clayjulia@aol.com

By weldment (*)

Date 01-07-2007 20:21

You got that right IT IS RIGHT NOW FOR SURE!! I appreciate all of the tips and I'll give it hell tomorrow when I get back in the shop. Yeah I got to get the show on the road man so I can make some of that $$$. I'll let you know how it goes after tomorrow. Take care.
Weldment

By webbcity (***)

Date 01-07-2007 18:40

weldment , current adjustment needs to be high enough to get penetration through the back side , a small bead should form on the back side , the face of the weld should be flat . keep a small hole at the foward edge of the weld pool if your hole gets too big move foward along the bevel till your puddle freezes then back to root and proceed . hold your rod at 90 degrees to the weld so it will tie in evenly on the top side and lean about 10 degrees in the direction of travel . rod position is important , and you can vary it to improve your personal style . if you get a chance watch someone else do it and see what they are doing , also have them watch you . you'd be supprized what you can pick up fast this way , especially if you have any bad habits you need to change . once you have mastered this again you will feel good . hope this helps let us know how you do . willie

By weldment (*)

Date 01-07-2007 20:24

Thanks Willie. I'll put what you said t work tomorrow too. Yeah, I got to git er done man, so I can get some of that $$ coming in. Mama needs some new shoes and I got a boy fixin to go to college. So I plenty of reason to be out there gittin it man you know what I mean? I'll let you know how it goes after tomorrow. I'm gonna give it hell man.
Weldment

By webbcity (***)

Date 01-07-2007 22:20

weldment , there will be a few things you will need to do when you move into pipe , so let us know , there are many on this forum that can help with that . so keep in touch . i haven't done a tig root for a long time but did make up a tig guide 20+ yrs. ago when i was training welders , i'll have to see if i can dig it out , and see it memory stills there . sourdough and others are probably more current than me . good luck . willie

By Blaster (***)

Date 01-07-2007 18:40 Edited 01-07-2007 19:06

Keep the tip of the rod down in the groove - remember you are trying to put the root pass between the lands, and keep it off the bevel faces... if you get on the bevel faces you will both loss reliable penetration and cause the pieces to start pulling together, closing the root opening.

If you are jerking the rod off, be sure to move down in the groove as you move forward, and then move back before the rear of the keyhole solidifys completely. When you go back on the keyhole, the farther you go back and the longer you hold (within reason) the more reinforcement you will put on the inside of the joint.

If the keyhole is getting too small, stop jerking it off. If it is getting too big, increase the distance of the forward movement (within reason).

If using the jerking technique, be sure to move the entire rod forward and back, not just the tip - the rod angle should not change. When the rod is moved forward it should be parallel to where it was when at the back of the keyhole.

If keyhole is getting hard to control, don't be too quick to turn the current down if the keyhole gets too big. You many need to, but you may be better off with a heavier land, less bevel angle (I like 32-33 degrees), and/or a smaller root opening. Your technique may need adustment too.

If you lower the current too far in attempts to control the key hole size, you will loss arc density / arc stiffness, and the soft arc will not follow the movements you make with the rod very responsively - the arc may want to favor one side of the joint or the other.

Always drag on open root w/ 6010 regardless of position or direction of vertical progression.

For 6010 electrodes, from time to time I use ESAB 6010 (10P and 10P+ I think are the model names), Hobart Pipe Master, Lincoln 5P, and Lincoln 5P+. For open root I prefer the arc characteristics of Lincoln 5P+ (5P+ is their Grey colored 6010).

If allowed, DCEN can make open root passes considerably easier to control than DCEP.

I like to keep my line of sight behind the rod so I can easily see what the keyhole is doing - got to get up under there and eat some fire :)

By weldment (*)

Date 01-07-2007 20:32

Thanks for the help Blaster. Right now I've got to use what rods they have at this school I'm in. This school has really been a learning experience for sure. I've really learned a lot about patience. They have not had a class over here for over 5 years and you talk about a cluster f----. Anyway, the machines in there are like ancient too. I got on one though that seems to be pretty fair. I'm running somewhere between 80-95amps. There seems to be a little bit of fluctuation with this ol machine but better than the one that blew up on me about a month ago over there. I'll try out what you suggested to me and get up under that thing and eat some fire man! I've got to get out there and make some $$ for sure. Thanks for all of the help. I'll let you know how it goes.

By XPERTFAB (**)

Date 01-09-2007 17:52

Heres a little tip that helps the structural welders I have to train and should help you too. It is very easy as you are concentrating to loose position of the electrode as relating to angle. Additionally, you may not realize just how much or how little you are moving your electrode holder in a direction you don't want to. If you have access to a video camera, go ahead and set it up to actually film yourself while you are welding. Doing such without focusing the camera directly at the weld initally but rather on your upper body. It will quickly show you how smooth you ae at the end of a long weldment as comparted to the beginning of your weld. You will be surprised what you see. If you are fortunate enough to have an automatic lens hood that you can afix over the lens of the video camera, then you can begin to film the actual weld being made. Do this on a tripod to hold the camera in one position and eliminate the risk to an indivudual filming you should the autoview lense come undone from the camera. You will find that your welding will improve immensely as you view yourself acutally welding and can correct your habits as necessary to acheive desired results. Self filming and subsequent review helps eliminate that feeling of criticism that comes from having someone else watch and critique you as you weld. It is also very helpful foir you to take this tape of you welding and show it to other whom you would seek out their help but cannot necessarily coordinate time with. Remember to adjust the autoview helmet lense to shade ten or higher to protect the camera and give you good footage of what you are doing. A lttle experience at filming yourself and soon you will find ways to use this tool to improve other things you want to perfect. If you don't own a video camera then consider renting one for a day or two. Quite possible one of your intrigued welder friends could loan you an auto lense if you are without. A standard single shade lense will also work but you loose some detail in starting the weld as the camera has to adjust for the quick change in lighting. Some cameras do not film if there is insufficient light. I am not a video expert by any means, but when I have to try and train three guys at the same time how to weld well enough to acheive code compliant work, I have to find a way to get beyond the watching over their shoulders in a hurry. As you review the tapes you will see you are your own worse critic. Good Luck and keep us posted!!!