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Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / A SHOCKING experience
- - By Sourdough (****) Date 01-12-2007 23:44
Now we've all been shocked at one point, but how bad?. . . .

     2 days ago I was stitching together a shaker slide on a rig. I had (2) 4x8 sheets of 1/8" firmly together, (lengthwise), and was tying in 8" strap on both sides vertically to trap the cuttings coming down. Built telescoping legs for the length all the way down to ground zero.
   
     Dummy me was kneeling on the plate, pre installation,(on the ground), with wet knees and hands, and struck an arc with 3/16 hippy rod, 140 amps.

I cannot stress NOT, doing this ENOUGH!!!!!! I went from kneeling - to the Superman pose in a nanosecond ! Then the arc was interrupted. I love my 305D. . .
   
Do not do this folks! This was the first time I have been completely involuntary with my body. The electricity was completely in control of my musculatory functions. It happened so fast, I couldn't believe it.

    The real point of this story, (true), is about safety harnesses: I don't know how many times I have been hanging like a chimp, ( with roughnecks in awe), completing a weld in the substructure, or derrick of a drilling rig, just to get them by. So many times I have done it, knowing it is dangerous, but unwilling to strap on that harness I paid so damn much for.

    I will never, ever fail to strap it on now. It's crazy how we can ignore those guys that have been through it all!

Imagine if that current had gone through me even 30 feet above the ground? How bout 90. No chance for survival!! Head dive!!
Parent - - By yorkiepap (***) Date 01-13-2007 02:03
Hey SD,
Now that really sounds like a significant learning lesson. You see, you were spared.....for a reason. Maybe a message to really THINK prior to engaging in anything that has the possibility to cause a physical injury. I know, at times, people think that those of us who practice safety in a serious manner only work in a surgical environment and have no concerns about getting injured. In reality, it only takes a minute or less to just simply look at all the procedures one must undertake to complete a job and the parameters of the work area and project. Accidents don't just happen..they are created. There is always a factor somewhere that creates  an accident. In my 40+ years in the work environment, I have personally witnessed over 60 work-related accidents that caused serious physical damage. Some not pretty at all. And I'll challenge anyone who says differently.

Hey 'bro, glad you're still here to keep us company. In addition, your "little one" needs his pappy....play it SAFE for him.......Denny
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 01-13-2007 02:43
Thanks Bro! Yeah, I always towed the macho aproach on the rigs, mainly because I used to be a roughneck. That was unlike any charge I have ever felt - even after fishing quarters out from under ma's clothes dryer, (220). I was at complete mercyof the juice, for sure. Never ever would have thought it to be so powerful! Life changing, as dramatic as it sounds. . . . . .
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-13-2007 11:23
Don't forget that your heart is also a muscle.... ;-)

Safety harnesses and landyards....great stuff, please wear it when working from heights. Do not consider a simple belt around your waist as safe fall protection...those can do more damage than good. Imagine falling backwards and the belt snatches you to a stop...you would break your back and look like a folded pocket knife. I saw a fall protection demonstration where they showed what could happen...a 200# man falling "6ft"...it was ugly. Someone stated that they could catch a rung on the ladder if they were falling, but the instructor reminded them that when falling, the reaction time between your brain and eye isn't fast enough for you to catch the rung that you were aiming for. By the time you realize that you are falling...pick an object to latch on to...brain gets in gear to move your hand outward towards that object...the object that you were aiming for is now 6' above you. Yup, you have already fallen 6' past your target. Needless to say that seminar was very enlighting.
Parent - By makeithot (***) Date 01-16-2007 02:19
I have done some extensive work in the wet inviroment and as a diver , when welding annoids to a ship you some times need a helper. If when the stinger goes hot and your rod touchs the annoid your helper is holding for you, it staightens him right-out. The proplem here thought is it's hard to find a helper that can hang on to the annoid long enough for you to get a tack. So always best to strike the ship first.
Parent - - By XPERTFAB (**) Date 01-17-2007 02:46
Narrow escape!!  Sorry this happened to you!
I always wondered, since we all predominately get paid by the hour for services preformed, why don't all of us use our safety gear every time as we get paid to put on and also get paid to take it off/ put it away.  I'm sure we all could use some additional billable time.  Calculated out one year how much I made in putting on and taking off my harness (rig) several times a day in one year.  I was surprised how much more money I made using it.
Many years wearing these things has led me to the Dennington harness.  This thing is AWESOME in how it works, how it fits, and how comfortable it is to wear even with two bolt bags (large variety), two spud wrenches, a sleever bar of thirty inch variety, tape measure holder, bull pin, speedbolts, shackle, two six foot chokers,  an eight pound beater and a rod sleeve with six pounds of 7018.  End of the day, no sore spots, no raw shoulders or neck and the way the load is carried on your body is really well balanced.  Cheap? NO!!  Good? Oh Yeh!!!  Wear one for a week and you' ll never go back.  Best part is the lanyards are at the OSHA length out of the box and if you fall, you are arrested from fall in a vertical position not splayed out like some dumb bird ,banging your head on everything around as you swing.  Have had occasion to use it twice now as it was intended due to that nasty ice on those little wormy narrow beams they use around here.  The rebar below did not get any of my blood on it. Check em (DENNINGTON HARNESS) out on the internet.  I'm sure you will be happy with it as compared to the crap they sell in safety catalogs.
Be careful out here!!  PS Hope you don't have to carry all this crap that I do around when working in other than inspection work. Oh the guy who developed them is an union ironworker.  I'm sure that Superman pose would have looked a little humorous to a causal onlooker........!!

Somewhere I read years ago about OSHA compiled statistics of falls from elevations of less than twenty feet.  Ironically the fatality rate as shown was much higher at shorter heights owing to the top heaviness of the human male and landing on your head.  The occurrence of paralysis from these falls was staggering.  Wheelchair bound as a"QUAD"; using my tongue to guide a switch  so I could move the chair around as I wait for someone to change my diaper While I slowly rot from infection from the ever increasing sores growing on my body caused by sitting in the chair too long.  Disgusting isn't it?  Not the way I want to finish this life for sure.  Drove an Alcohol dragster for a guy for a while who is paraplegic.  This guy had an unbelieveable talent for making money.  Millions and Millions of dollars.  Nice Guy too!!  Fun to hang with for sure!  Says to me still to this day, that he would give all his money, homes, trucks, racecars up in an instant just to be able to walk again.  I think about him everyday when I put my harness on for the first time that morning.
Now just how profitable to put on that harness???  At seventy-five dollars per hour labor rate and three minutes to put it on with an additional two minutes to take off and put it away just once a day; I just made another $6.25.  Now multiply that times an average of 175 working days a year that I need it and that comes to $1093.75.  More money to me for just being smart enough to use it (wink wink!)!  I think the OSHA guys just did me a favor by requiring that I wear one.  Mexico vacation here I come....... 
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-21-2007 21:43
I've had my fair share of shocks but nothing like yours sourdough. But back in the day when i was an iron worker like in 1989. they were still using just the saftey belt a harness had never been heard of i was 120' above the next level on a coal burning power plant we were building walking a 4'' i beam carrying a bolt bag w 14   15 1 1/8'' bolts nuts and washers with a full belt of tools 2 bolt bags full of 1 1/4'' bolts 3 spud wrenches in my sleeve  1'' A 7/8'' and a  3/4'' , my 6lb beater, sleever bar, a 1'' and 3/4'' bullpins and lost my ballance let go of the bolt bag and grabbed hold of the life line with both hands jerking all the slack out of the life line which was about 10' without gloves on and my hands were sweaty needless to say i lost my grip and fell doing a strechted out summer salt like i was high diving. picture this I' 6'9''  tall 255lbs and fell completely strectched out heigth wise. by the time i jerked all the slack outa the life line and bent the life line poles over onto the beams + the length of the lanyard i'd say it was a good 30-40' scared yes i was scared didnt bounce like a yoyo jus a sudden stop talk about a jerk they swung the 4100 mantiwoc we were using 1 man got on the ball and came down to rescue me. i got on the ball they lowered me down to the next level the job super was standing right there. i started picking up all the bolts i dropped by the way i didnt loose a tool 1 jus the bolts in the bag not even my hard hat or sfaety glasses. anyway the super was standing right there and asked me what i was doing i told him its like gettin bucked off a horse i'm getting back on to show him whos boss. he said if u need too go sit in my office for a bit i said i'm goin back up. by the time i got around to the elevator it hit me my knees locked together and i was shaking like a leaf. elevator lady asked me what floor i said the ground and spent the rest of the day in the supers office. That belt jerked me so hard i was black and blue and i mean literally black and blue for a month could barely walk for a week damn lucky i didnt break my back but very thankful i lived to tell about it. That so far was the biggest shock of my life. you think i would of learned but i get up in the derricks w/o a belt all the time guess i jus feel safe insoide a derrick i dunno or i'm jus real stupid
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 01-22-2007 03:59
Good times, goood times. ..  ...

Alright XPERTFAB, here's the deal, and this goes for the union folk out there as well.

I am self employed. I pride myself as being faster and better than anyone in my field. The day that I am beat, I will be humble, I truly will. In my line of work, you cannot back off. The next job is waiting already. If I farted around with the suggested safety measures as much as osha wants me to I would make half the wage I do! I will never fail to put on a harness/lanyard setup, because I learned the hard way, BUT I never measure what I make by MILKING the company that I am billing at the time.Get in and get out is my motto. The guys that sign my ticket, (despite working for huge corporations), generally work as hard, or harder than I do. As fast as I can get them taken care of, that's how fast I can service the next outfit. THUS, making much, much more money in the long run....................

Now how many corporations practice true safety procedures when its not conveniant for them to? Anybody know the answer?
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 01-22-2007 04:12
Nah, not stupid Rafterg! I remember not too long ago, I was extending a flow tube on a 24" conductor. I only needed to make one pass, and just didn't have the energy to get all the way down to put on a harness. I held on to the sub structure at full extension of both arms and made that weld. The driller came up to me later and said I was the best damn welder he'd seen, to make a weld like that. At the time I felt good about it, but now I think how stupid it was.

Sometimes, it just isn't on the tip of your brain to be safe. Sometimes we are tired, have other problems are plagueing us, or whatever. When I was on my knees on a plate of steel, I was tired. I didn't say to my self: "hey jackass, you're wet and your machine is cranked up!" No, I instead struck an arc!

If we live through it it makes us better. I gotta say another thing about our line of work. We are in the most dangerous field of welding there is.

How safe can that actually be?
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-22-2007 12:14
very true sourdough anything can happen at any given time you can be as safety cautious as osha wants you to be and still get killed or severly hurt its not if it happens its when it happens as for your post about speed i agree get in and get out it makes you look good and you're right in the long run you make more money no comapny i know wants to spend anymore than they have too most company men or even the pushers are right there on top of you ( how much longer, are ya almost done) i think those are the only phrases they know. sure hope it picks up soon down here things are slow
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 01-24-2007 19:56
I really understand where you guys are coming from....However, these "Safety" things are out there by OHSA because someone already got hurt doing what ever it is.  These guidlines are not there to hurt your ability to make $, they are there so your kids have a daddy at the end of the work day.  Safety comes at a cost, yes it sometimes slows us down, but we have all our fingers and toes and can still walk because we took the extre 10 minutes to safeguard.
You can do it 100 times and it's that 101 time at the end of a 21 hour day that it happens, and you (or your widow) pays for it forever.
I always try to work faster then the next guy, but if he wins by cutting corners, he can have it.
Parent - - By Bill M (***) Date 01-25-2007 19:38
Glad to know you are still with us Sourdough-

Definition of accident:
a.  An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm
b.  An unforeseen incident

We do not get injured or killed at work by "accidents".  Our injuries are not by unexpected or unforseen incidences.  They happen because like you and everyone already said above, we fail to follow all the safety procedures we already know by heart...we fail to wear proper protective equipment designed to keep us safe, and we take stupid shortcuts because we are complacent with the extremely dangerous hazards all around us every day.

Like you said Sourdough- what other job is there where you can control a puddle of molten metal with an arc that is hotter than the surface of the sun ...and put it inches away from your face...then throw in doing it off a ladder hanging by your tail...then for grins, put another guy 6ft above you, doing the same thing.

Last year in the US alone, over 5000 people never came home from work...and it wasn't by "accident".

My only definition of an acceptable accident:  When you let one go.., and you ---- your pants!
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 01-25-2007 19:50
Hello Bill M, very interesting and valid comments, indeed. Unfortunately for those 5,000 or so individuals and their families and friends definitely a bad situation and one that can't just be reversed in their cases. I believe the biggest thing that isn't considered by all of us in a situation where this happens, is that we don't get to have a replay. When it's done it's done, period. I have conversations with students all the time to discuss safety and related issues. Statistically, those who are generally injured are the greenhorns who haven't been made aware that a danger exists, or those who have been at it for so long that, as you said, become complacent and forget just that smallest little thing so WHAM it comes around to bite them. Take the extra seconds to consider the physics of a given situation and very likely you'll live another day in good health. Regards, aevald
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 01-27-2007 17:48
Everybody is right here. When you're safe, your chances of going home are good, when you're not - they're not. This is why I'm trying to get away from the rigs for production work. In production, there isn't 12 yoyos whacked out of their minds on speed not knowing if they're coming or going.

My wife especially likes this change of venue. . . . BUT, the adventure will not be there with the production work. . . .
Parent - - By Dennington Date 02-16-2007 17:18
XPERTFAB, great comments!  Since I am the one that designed and manufacture the Dennington harness I feel very honored that you feel this way about my equipment.  I have written a fall comparison guideline which compares my harness to others and believe it or not, the others allow you to fall up to 18 1/2' and they say its okay!  I can't access your email address but I'm going to try to get it to the American Welding Society so it will be accessible to all you guys that are interested.  We are fighting the fight with OSHA for each and every one of you so this technology will be recognized by them. 

My harness meets the original fall protection standards that didn't allow the extra 3 1/2' elongation and keeps you to 6' period!  We've done a four year study from the Bureau of Labor Statistics which showed that between  2002 and 2005 there were 328,726 workers injured by falls to a lower level.  I bet you know that floors are built in 10' increments and an 18 1/2' fall will allow you to slam into the structure below you!  Somehow they're just not getting it!

Regardless about any comments on the money you made putting on and taking off the harness it is a very important statement if it'll make others use harnesses.  I am a fourth generation ironworker and even though I'm retired now I perform at least four jumps per month and total more than 2,000 jumps in my harness.  Okay, ironworkers are known as being slightly crazy but to date I can't find anyone who would feel safe enough to jump in another style harness as many times as I have in mine.  Another comment posted here told about a guy that fell and was injured just from what happened to his body from other style of harness -- guess he should have been using mine, I've never had so much as a bruise after jumping off a 10-14' structure in mine.  All you guys out there that are reading this are welcome to go to my website and send me an email about your personal experiences using fall protection.  I especially would like to hear from anyone who was injured in harnesses. I'm always interested in how to make other improvements for the American workforce! 

Its very important to me that everyone goes home to their families every evening.  Even CBS came and a news anchor performed a jump in my equipment.  Check it out and remember, if you have to wear one you might as well be comfortable and not get hurt if you fall.  All other harnesses were developed to keep you from hitting the ground, mine was developed to keep you from getting hurt if you do fall!

Mark Dennington
www.DenningtonSafetyGear.com.
Parent - - By XPERTFAB (**) Date 02-17-2007 05:54
Thanks for the reply!  Email me at wld4csh@yahoo.com if you choose for more discussion about this topic.  Great product with an unbelieveable fit.  Maybe you could design some accessory bolt bags, spud holder and such that fit your belt portion of your harness more easily.  Liked it so much I bought my girlfriend one so she's covered in her work too!  However the harness lacks a little in the fit department for women with above average breast size.  I asked our local sales guy about this and alI I got was a HUH! for an answer.  Maybe you offer women's specific fit and it is not shown on your website.  Anyway Thanks again!!
XPERTFAB
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 05-12-2007 10:35 Edited 05-12-2007 10:43
I dont want  to say a lot here except Sourdough i am glad for you man!!!!  you seem to be a pretty good egg and you should LIVE to your fullest!.

Harnesses- one piece of advice that is OFTEN overlooked.....DO NOT and I mean DO NOT ever tie off near a column....Tie off away from the columns as much as you can...otherwise find a better way to do it.

My very first Ironworking job...after the strawbosses speech we all got up and went about it....morning dew, slick steel....I seen a guy get his neck broke 30 mins into it because he tied off on a column.  He fell. and he swung headfirst striaght into it.  It was not because of the harness...just the way he used it.  Know your gear and how to use it the right way guys...it aint there for bs...its there for a dang good reason.

BTW I really like the way you think XPERTFAB!!!   Its all truth
Parent - By XPERTFAB (**) Date 05-13-2007 23:58
GOOD BIT OF ADVICE TO PASS ON FOR SURE.  MOST PEOPLE I KNOW TIE OFF TO BEAMS AND SUCH SO AS TO TO BE ABLE TO MOVE AROUND.  I USE SOME SHORT 3/8" CHOKERS ON EACH LANYARD TO MAKE THE CONNECTION.  BUT HONESTLY I HAVE KIND OF FORGOTTEN ABOUT PROVIDING THIS BIT OF INSIGHT TO THE NEW GUYS ON THE JOB.  THANKS FOR REMINDING ME!
XPERTFAB
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 07-24-2007 19:57
Harness question--they're supposed to be disposed of after 5 years (and date of first use rather than date of manufacture seems to be an acceptable starting point), but what about a harness that's hardly been used for 5 years?

Hg
Parent - By Mwccwi (***) Date 07-24-2007 23:10
My thoughts are don't risk a comprimise on safety, if they say 5yrs is all they cover them for -there must be a reason- maybe dry-rot?
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 07-25-2007 13:17
I dont know that there is a REQUIREMENT to dispose of a Harness/Lanyard after 5 years.   Is that a Manufacturer requirement?  From my understanding OSHA requires an inspection prior to use and removal of any equipment found to be defective.  http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/fallprotection/standards.html
Unless your company requires automatic disposal after 5 years I would say inspect prior to use and if you have a question regarding the suitability of of your gear have it tested.  OSHA has some accepted test methods you can find if you prod around their website. 

If you do know of a federal/state written REQUIREMENT please let us know and perhaps provide a link or document as some of us are involved in the safety departments of our companies and SHOULD know.

Thanks
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 07-29-2007 07:39
Mr. Buchanen....rip. Came out to the floor of a drill rig he was consulting on and took a crescent wrench through the scull dropped by the derrick hand - killed instantly.......

Frontier Drilling, rig #5
Parent - By XPERTFAB (**) Date 07-30-2007 00:05
Hardhat yes or no?  Spud or regular crescent? Tether on wrench, yes or no?  (obvious it was not used)  Drugs or alcohol involved? Gathering some data for a class I am going to be teaching this fall.  My condolences to his loved ones.  IT REALLY SUCKS WHEN THIS KIND OF CARELESSNESS RESULTS IN A MAN LOSING HIS LIFE!!! 
Parent - By NMWELDING (**) Date 07-31-2007 03:20
I had a shocking experience,but not in the electrical sense. I also weld on and for drilling rigs as Sourdough does. In my situation at this time I was attempting to cut off the wellhead and then cap the well[this was an old producer that was supposed to be properly plugged].I was told it was cemented to surface and there was no gas to worry about, so cut away,I was told by the service rig operator.As I blew a hole in the surface casing,[to start my cut in removing the wellhead]extreme pressure blew out the hole,so strong it was nearly blowing out my torch. In about 2 seconds I smelled natural gas,quickly I shut off my acetylene.A very close call,too close.The only thing I could think of that kept the gas from igniting was the extreme pressure nearly blowing out my cutting torch. Other than this everyone on location was very shocked and suprised there was no explosion.And to make matters worse this was down about seven feet in a cellar,no chance to escape if the worst happened.The rig operator was quite shaken up by giving me the OK to go to it.He said he bled off the gas. He likely did,but the gas built up pressure again over time,because after I concluded my cut I seen the well was not cemented to surface as it was sipposed to have been.In all my years in oilfield welding this was the closest I came to being a cinder.I usually double check everything on a job but this time,and I do not why I did not. It always pays to double check,not that we do not trust others,but because of the unforeseen. The rig operator said I must have had an angel looking over my shoulder.I think he was correct!
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / A SHOCKING experience

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