This thread has some pretty scary stuff in it....

Lawrence , i'm not trying to argue with you,,,,,,,i know there are WPS's behind everything,,,,,i'm familiar with them,,,,,and used them before,,,,,,but only in shop work.......
what i do theses days is mostly standard practice,,,,,,,,,i'll take one of the least as an example.......decking,,,,,,there is pretty much only one way to spot decking down the "right way"......the AISC , and the AWS have already figured it out , and all this correct info goes into WPS's.......i know this process........and i'm sure there is a WPS some where on that process , but i'm going to go hunt it down,,,,,,if my forman asked me what i was doing , and i told him i need the WPS on these spot welds , he'd tell me 2 things , 1- stop F ***ing with me , and 2-start welding.....all the the info i need for that particular type job is right there in the plan......size , and location....thats it.........and "if" things have changed with that particular WPS , then it will be brought to my attention.......heres another one , my buddys house down the street , i show up to weld a few funky saddles for some floor joist , and a couple of base plates...."all to code" , and i give the inspector my paperwork , go to the plan , a couple 1/4 inch fillet welds here , and a few 3/16th inch fillets over there , and thats about it,,,,,no WPS..........???
i never said that passing the L.A. city exam makes me the Sh*t , but what i do is expected......and it all comes from the codes.........
beam to column connection,,,,,t-1 is 1/2 inch thick , t-2 is 1 1/2 inch thick , i don't use a WPS to tell me how much preheat.........or my max electrode size/type , to weld up or down....SMAW or FCAW........?   it all comes from the codes , and isn't that  where the WPS's come from....?

the welding inspector has seen me do this over and over....thats right , he just walks by........thats all he needs to see , and i know "you" know what i'm talking about......

as far as Mdg custom welds responce.......well , you don't tell the "Engineer" anything......if he makes the call to blow-off the pre-heat on the saftey cable tab , then thats what you do.....even if the knucklehead has never run a bead in his life....he can do that......it dosen't fall on "me" , it falls on "him".....he is the one that tells the inspector and contractor to tell me to just weld them on and don't worry about it ,,,,then theres the time they had me tack weld all the 90 dregee intersects on all this no.9 bar (60 grade) in this structural footing.. (to make it easier and so they hold up when lifting them into place)....i think that guy had his secretary sitting on his lap when he made that call...and i'm sure its being noted some where......thats not my concern , its not my place.....or am i supposed to "STOP EVERYTHING" and call him on his judgement call......ya , right......
and you'll find that in D1.1 also... its everywhere......( and believe me , i think thats wrong )..........

i understand what it means to come up with a design . come up with a WPS (from the code books) , that will passed a test of some sort , and go with it.....but the've already done that , in every possible joint imaginable.......

this is getting too deep , way back then , all i asked was what they mean when they say , "all WPS's shall be written".........

and dont take me the wrong way,,,i appreciate all your input,,,all of you...........thank you.....

I didn't read this thread in its entirety. I just skimmed it rather quckly. So forgive me if I'm really missing the point. But if I may, it may not be as bad as some of it sounds. The idea that a WPS determines the parameters by which a welder performs his task is only half right. It is sort of putting the cart before the horse. Stable (help me here-I actually cannot visualize if this is the correct spelling-I ain't talkin bout horses) parameters in a qualification determine the WPS range. Therefore, the WPS is in reality more of a reminder than a determiner. Whereas a violation of the WPS is certainly a serious matter in need of addressing, and some minimum standard has to be maintained, it has always been my opinion that the 7%/10% range is unnecessarily restrictive (see ASME) and that stable parameters can be found outside these ranges. Given an experienced welder, and this is critical, stable parameters as he sees them through the hood will, if not dead on, find their way certainly within a range of metallurgical and mechanical acceptibility.
Also, this path of thinking translates well into arguments based upon the necesity of calibration. Or in other words, if the arc and puddle are smooth as silk does it matter if the machine says 200 or 180? Don't misunderstand,this is not an advocation of willy nilly QC, just perhaps a smidgen of a common sense and ASME incubated perspective.