WPS do or not

Date 02-13-2007 18:34

I have a condition that meets the requirements as specified in section 5.22.4.3, where I must close up the gap prior to the joint being made. The original weld is to be made with a typical Prequalified WPS, can the "buttering" or "build up" be made using the prequalified WPS for the original joint? Secondly based on 5.22.4.3 is it REQUIRED per D1.1 that we obtain Engineer appproval when not specified in contract documents?

I know the answer, I think, based on my review but I'm looking for a concensus that I might present to an individual who may be way off base (that might be me).

thanks

By js55

Date 02-13-2007 19:24

My opinion would be that the more correct term is 'build up' as opposed to buttering. Buttering would be associated more with a 'buffering ' layer, so to speak, in which WM's of differing chemistry are used (without looking up any specific AWS definitions).
In answer to your primary question it would be my interpretation that in lieu of a specific prohibition against using prequals to satisfy 5.22.4.3 they would be acceptable to use. I do not know of a specific prohibition.
And 5.22 makes clear the parameters that require Engineer approval of which yours do not seem to qualify.
Perhaps more competent D1.1 guys can help us out.

By Richard Cook (**)

Date 02-13-2007 19:45

I agree, the individual I'm trying to convince considers it buttering, wants Qualified procedures and wants the engineer involved, I do not agree with his call.

By js55

Date 02-13-2007 19:58

Its not buttering. Examples of buttering would be using a 309 or Ni alloys as a buttering layer on CS to prevent martensite formation and then switching to a more economical 308. Or buttering with a Ni base allow on CS and then welding with PWHT a SS fitting to prevent sensitization. Or buttering Grade 91 with B3 to allow a Grade 91 heat treat (~1400deg) and then welding the completed joint-a dissimlar with CS-with B3 that will then be heat treated for Grade 22 temps(1310-1325 has been used). This avoids driving the CS into transformation (~1340). Again the idea of buttering is the use of the weld metal as a buffering layer for whatever reason.

By js55

Date 02-13-2007 20:04

If you review Commentary 5.22.4.3 they use the term 'build up'. Not buttering. Code bodies do not choose their words lightly.

By js55

Date 02-13-2007 20:13

Per AWS 3.0;2001
Buttering-"to provide meallurgically compatible weld metal for subsequent completion".
Build up-"to achieve the required dimensions".

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 02-13-2007 20:27

Js55,
Very good use of your A3.0 <wink>

By js55

Date 02-13-2007 20:49

John,
I had to make sure that what I thought was true of buttering was actually compatible with AWS. I feel better now.

By Richard Cook (**)

Date 02-13-2007 21:22

I agree, but convincing an individual who knows it all is my biggest obsticle, I,ve come up with all you have referenced

Thanks, it's good to talk with people that use common sense and reasoning, rather than someone who reads something some where and applies it to every thing.

By js55

Date 02-13-2007 22:31

Richard,
I know. People who THINK they know everything really annoy people like us who actually DO know everything. Ha!!!
Sometimes its a tough sell. Good luck.