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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / 410 Stainless- Which Welding Consumable
- - By kedawhit (*) Date 03-14-2007 14:31
Looking for some guidance here. Building to ASME code, we need to qualify a groove weld for SA-182-F6a to SA-240-410 (P6 Grp 3 to P6 Grp 1). Test coupon is 1 1/2" T for SAW process. Also qualifying SMAW with 3/4" T coupon. Welds will be PWHT'd at 1425° due to carbon > .08. Preheat is 450° F per UHA-32.

I've heard that we CAN use Inconel; I think I've also seen 309L in this situation. Why would we not use a 410 consumable if it's available? I'm a little new at this (especially with the 410), so any help would be greatly appreciated.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-14-2007 15:00
Depending upon what you anticipate will be your applications in the future why not combine the SMAW and SAW qual in the same coupon. Or even better, a GTAW, SMAW, and SAW in the same coupon. You only need 1/2" deposit thickness to achieve unlimited filler thickness and 1/1/2" for unlimited BM thickness. You could essentially achieve unlimited thickness for all four in one coupon.
Parent - - By Bill M (***) Date 03-14-2007 16:52
regarding qualification-
I think QW-451 says that even if your plate is 1-1/2" and your multi-process weld deposit is 1/2" thick, you are qualified with that process up to 2 times the thickness of the weld deposit (or 1" in this case).   If your weld deposit equals or exceeds 3/4", then your qualification goes up to 8".  For "unlimited" thickness with 3 different weld processes...you would need a coupon 2-1/4" thick to make 3 weld layers at 3/4" thick each.

What thickness qualification range do you need?

Why do you not want to use a 410 filler metal?
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-14-2007 16:56
Thanks Bill,
You are correct. Good save. The 1/2" deposit thickness is for performance quals. In this case I would GTAW to a 1/4" for 1/2" qual, SMAW 1/2" for 1" qual and SAW the rest for unlimited.
Parent - - By kedawhit (*) Date 03-15-2007 15:17
Thanks for the responses. I don't HAVE to use 410 filler, just curious as to what my options are.
I need to qualify for a minimum of 1 11/16" thick plate--realizing I could use 3/4" T and get there, I just figured go ahead a qualify for max. Am I asking for problems with the 410 materials?
This weld will be used to join a ring to a dished head (the 1 11/16" thickness).

Thanks again for any help.
Parent - - By GRoberts (***) Date 03-15-2007 17:05
I would avoid the 309 type material.  The coefficient of expansion may cause you problems with PWHT, as well as possible intermetallic formation.  There shouldn't be a problem welding 410 with 410 filler metal.  It will definitely be more economical than inconel.  To get a thorough recommendation though, you would have to provide more information about the intended service of the vessel.  Also, due to your PWHT temperature, do not use 410NiMo, just the straight 410. 
Parent - By kedawhit (*) Date 03-21-2007 20:03
(Been out of the office the past week) I appreciate the response. Thanks a bunch.
Parent - - By George-kh (**) Date 03-28-2007 23:33
GRoberts,

May you explain the problem in metallurgy point of view, please?
Parent - - By GRoberts (***) Date 03-29-2007 00:28
George,
The difference in coefficient of expansion leads to high stresses &/or distortion in the part.  In the worst case, the high stress could cause cracking.  This would probably be in the base metal (410) since it is not that tough or ductile.

The other problem, is that most 309 filler metals contain significant amounts of ferrite, which at elevated temepratures such as would be encountered during PWHT, can transform into brittle intermetallic phases such as sigma.
Parent - By George-kh (**) Date 03-29-2007 12:19
Thanks.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / 410 Stainless- Which Welding Consumable

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