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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Need quick answer on smaw electrode,please.
- - By Molten Metal (**) Date 03-22-2007 21:40 Edited 03-23-2007 02:24
I have to weld up a large crane tommorow with a grappling attachment.There are several major cracks at stress points on the boom.The electrode they gave me to use is,( Type E-10018m-1  Class 1).They are 5/32x14" and were manufactured by a co. called "Alloy rods corp.".I test welded with it today on some a36 mild steel,1/2" thick in the flat,horizontal,vert-down and vert-up.It acts like 6010 to me.WHAT THE HELL IS IT ?:)Also the date on the can says 8/27/87 !!!! They also threw some 7018 at me that looked like it had been left in a georgia swamp.I told them I'd use my own for the cap.I wont know the extent of the cracks till I grind them out and will preheat before welding.The matl is 5/8" and 3/4".But mainly I want to know what this electrode is.I'm guessing it's 100,000  . Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you Gary.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 03-22-2007 21:55
7018 has 70000# tensile strength, 10018 has the same chemical composition, and is an all position rod like 7018 but with a 100000 tensile strength
Parent - - By Molten Metal (**) Date 03-22-2007 22:07
So it's a low-hy rod too? It has me wondering if I should use it or not now.I know it hasnt been stored properly.The slag sure didnt seem like 7018.And the coating on the rod was quite a bit thinner than on 7018 of the same diameter...???????ARGHHH>
Parent - - By Molten Metal (**) Date 03-22-2007 22:23
I'm finding it on the web listed as a " LOW-Alloy" electrode and not a " low-hydrogen" electrode.I dont have a clue.Please someone tell me about low-alloy smaw electrodes.I'm squidding heavily on this one.Never used them bfore or even studied them......???????
Parent - - By new tito (***) Date 03-22-2007 22:36
I would agree that the electrode is 100ksi and low hydrogen, for use in all positions.  The "m-1" may be a manufacturer designation, that is why the web site said "low alloy".  See if you can get more info from the manufacturer on suggested parameters and such.  Either way, they are low hydrogen, and I would be as skeptical with those as you are with the 7018's.
Parent - - By Root Pass (***) Date 03-22-2007 22:48
Don't put your A$$ on the line because "they" said you have to use that bunch of crap. Tell them straight up and go get/ have them what you are supposed to have. The most expensive rods in the world are cheaper than an accident or your reputation as a welding professional. Stick to your guns and just like Nancy Ragen "just say no".
Parent - - By Molten Metal (**) Date 03-23-2007 00:09
So the consensus is that it "is" a low-hy rod.Well sh!t then....I guess I will go down and buy some 7018 in that diameter as I only have 1/8" on the trailer.I've got 6010 for the root pass in 3/16"or 5/32.Do you guy's think I could just do it all in 6010?Or would you suggest using 7018 as well???
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 03-23-2007 01:54
i'm not trying to be a nag..... Use low/hy on everything that you have any doubt on. 5p is just not strong enough on most applications I deal with. You're looking at a structural job that requires probably 7018, and in multiple passes. In the pipeline world we use 5p most times because we are making numerous well planned passes. There is an issue of pressure, not weight or movement or weight and pressure. If your weld fails it will likely cost bookoo bucks, or someone's life. If you can sleep with that, go for it. If not, tell them that you will fix it right and they will pay for it........

On many jobs I have had to just agree with the layperson to do it their way. What really happens is that i do it the right way, then tell them after the job is done. I hate to admit that, but if you are having a tumor removed from your brain, are you going to tell the surgeon how to do it? Hell no, you value your life, so you leave it up to God and the pro's! Nuff said.

P.S. If you learn how to run LH well, you will have a ball doing it. You will be doing it on every job! Get a handfull of that stuff and go to town. If you have questions PM me.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 03-23-2007 00:37
Molten Metal,
You should not and I repeat should not weld on a crane boom without a qualified Welding Procedure.
The welding procedure, whether it is your companies or the manufacturer has supplied a WPS,will detail the required electrode, required pre-heat etc.
Crane booms are serious pieces of equipment and contacting the manufacturer for a repair procedure or assistance would be the first thing you should do.
I have written in previous postings about cracking occuring in huge excavator booms due to the wrong tensile strength electrode being used.
There are members on this forum with much better knowledge of metallurgy than myself, so hopefully they will help out but I will try and give you a basic explanation.
When you weld something you are trying to match the filler metal as closely as possible with the parent metal. ie 70,000psi steel = E70XX electrode, 80,000psi = E80XX.
For example if you welded a 70,000psi steel with an E110XX the increased strength may not be beneficial, it may actually be detrimental.
The bottom line is you must know that if you weld a certain steel with a certain electrode that it is not going to fail and cause a major accident. The only way to ensure that is with a qualified WPS.
Hope I have made sense,
Regards,
Shane
Parent - By 357max (***) Date 03-23-2007 00:57
Preach It and AMEN Brother/Sister Welders; Weld Procedure Specification (WPS) is the only way to cover the south end and sleep well at night.
Parent - By Molten Metal (**) Date 03-23-2007 01:01
Shane.Thanks for that,and I'm sure you are 100% right.I will call and e-mail the co. (CAT),and either get the info,or,refuse the job.I hate to do that,although I surely dont want anything that massive to fail.You just know the guy's just gonna get someone else to "just do it",but at least i can tell him about the inherent risks and hope for the best.They are so concerned about down time there that they are loosing alot of $$ because its the only one they have.They use it to pick up cars to and from the compacter at the recycling yard.I just found out that they'd been using it like that for months and that it's,"getting scary so we probably should get it fixed".There are so many fulcrum and leverage points on this thing that you should probably have an engineer look at it to even see if it CAN be repaired in the manner they wish it to be.I'm not an engineer....I guess I answered my own Q' there eh'?.........................:(
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 03-23-2007 15:13
"When you weld something you are trying to match the filler metal as closely as possible with the parent metal. ie 70,000psi steel = E70XX electrode, 80,000psi = E80XX."

Not quite.  The base metal strength is given in terms of yield strength, and the filler metal in terms of ultimate tensile strength.  So you do want a higher number.  The correspondences in D1.5 are like this:

Base metal (ksi)     Filler metal (ksi)
36                       60 or 70
50                       70 or 80
70                       90
100                      100 or 110

Toward the higher strengths there, yield and ultimate get pretty close together it looks like...

But you're absolutely right in that you don't want to use a higher-strenght electrode than you need to.  The stronger the metal, the more brittle it tends to be.

Hg
Parent - - By scrappywelds (***) Date 03-23-2007 01:19
E is for electrode
100 is for 100,000 tensile strength
1 is for all positions
8 is for low-hydrogen-iron powder composition
the m-1 is for some unknown to me alloying element

Now for the quality of the rods if the can was factory sealed, they should be fine, but if they were opened I'd trash em. I have ran they rods before, they should run like 7018, and they do need a preheat about 450 degrees I think. Now for the cracks grind them completely out and dye penitrate them.
Parent - - By welder5354 (**) Date 03-23-2007 04:15
Hi Molten Metal, Shane is correct when saying that u need a wps for the welding of the crane boom.
Low Alloy means that the material has a percentage of chrome in it.
It could be either 1-1/4 chrome; 2-1/4 chrome, etc.  Therefore the material will need to be heated to a certain temperature and that interpass temperature must be maintained through the entire weld.  The higher the chrome content, then the higher the interpass temperature must be kept.  The crane boom is Dynamic loaded which means that the structure is subjected to rapidly changing loads, reversals fo stress, and quite often, sudden shock and vibration.  7018 will not be acceptable in this case.  Make sure u get something from the company as to what the material is.
Parent - - By Molten Metal (**) Date 03-23-2007 04:29
Thanks guys.I will update tommorow after speaking with the manager at the yard.Gary.....
Parent - By magodley (**) Date 03-23-2007 12:23
there are many good places to find information about that, or other rods. Since this one is Alloy Rods, go to esabna.com, click on ESAB University icon, and there you will find thier electrode catalog, and a "Welding Technology" online course that is excellent
Amen to don't weld on it without a qualifies WPS...and the Mfg. instructions and approval.
Andy
Parent - - By rebel74 (*) Date 03-26-2007 21:38
If you are welding on a crane boom you should deffently use rods that have been properly stored. you could be putting people's lives in danger. You have the last say so if you are the one welding it, if it fails and someone gets hurt they will point the finger at you.
Good luck
Woody
Parent - By ZCat (***) Date 03-26-2007 23:06
10018 is a low chrome moly rod if I'm not mistaken. Seems like a crane boom would probably just be regular old carbon steel, wouldn't it be kinda expensive to make a boom outta chrome moly?

You need to find out what kind of metal it is, for sure.

If they're just picking up car bodies it probably doesn't make all that much difference. Are they using a big magnet on it? Don't imagine there's a whole lotta guys standing under the load...
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Need quick answer on smaw electrode,please.

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