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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / AL Heat Treating
- - By rebekah (**) Date 03-23-2007 12:24
Hey Guys

I have never heat treated AL 6061 before (or any other AL) and have a job that needs to ship out soon that they want Heat Treated to T6.  I have read the book about the process but my question is more about the filler rod.  I didnt even think about needing something othere than 4043, which is what we typically use, and have welded three pieces with it already.  Since I am in a time crunch, if I remove the majority of the weld and then weld over with 4643--the correct filler rod--will anything be aversely affected?  The material is only o.5" and technically 4043 would have gained enough mag from the admixture to heat treat in the V grooves but not in the fillet welds.  If there is a little 4043 left after I machine out the weld, will there be any problems?  I dont want to take out all the weld because I wil have to rejig the fixture. 

Also, what is the thoughts on respirators while AL welding?  My boss doesnt use one and I have only really welded AL here so I didnt know it was rec.  What are the dangers?  I just heard it mentioned on the forum and was curious.

Thanks
Parent - - By Stephan (***) Date 03-23-2007 14:50
rebekah,

in regard to the first fraction of your topic may I recommend to having firstly a view on this wonderful thread already been carried out on the forum?

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=11141

I am nearly certain there might - for the first - the one or the other good information be to find...

In regard to the second fraction of your topic (respirators for aluminum welding) here' s my humble contribution.

Independently of which process is being used for aluminum-welding (GMAW creates in higher ranges of welding-performance also higher amounts of fumes containing metallic-aluminum), basically it is proven that aluminum is not comparable to other metals which are - within specific limits (trace elements) - soluable by, and in some cases even necessary for the human body.

Aluminum is not being removed when once being stored within the human body and can - as far as I know by having read a medical investigation on Aluminum Welders many years ago - reach higher concentrations in the human brain and having been suspected for - in worst case and having been an assumption (!!) - causing Alzheimers desease. But - as mentioned - it is years ago when I have been interested in this matter and perhaps there have been stated new results meanwhile, and "proving" other facts (as often to be observed in the field of medical sciences).

Well, thanks God I am no physician but what I can confirm is, that one of the most known German Automotive Companies does oblige their Aluminum MIG-Welders to use respirators for their healthy safety. They will know why and this proves to me they know their welders worth and... they show their awareness of being responsible with their welders.

Regards,
Stephan

Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 03-23-2007 15:54
This is what i got out of my thread and somebody correct me if i'm wrong.  If you are going to post weld heat treat keep using the 4043 or 4643. If your not going to post weld heat treat your better off useing 4643 on a 6061-t6 base for better mechanical properties.
Parent - By rebekah (**) Date 03-23-2007 16:11 Edited 03-23-2007 19:10
You slipped in there Kix,

Actually, 4043 does not heat treat and isnt rec if you are going to post weld heat treat. 

The exception is if you are welding less than o.75" material with a groove weld.  Apparently in this instance, the admixture pulls enough mag from the base metal to allow it to accept the pwht.  It does not hold true for a fillet weld in les than o.75" material. 

It also matters what you are tying to get to, the RT aging will only get to T4, the extra step gets to T6, which is what I need. 

Either way, you have to solution treat the material which is heating the piece 970-1000F for 65-75 min followed by a rapid quench--with no more than a 15 sec delay, that's quick!--in water that doesnt get to 100F during the process.

That's all I know

Rebekah 
Parent - - By rebekah (**) Date 03-23-2007 16:04
Stephan,

I read that thread and unfortunately it doesnt answer my questions:

If 4043 was initially used and then machined out and re welded with 4643, does that have any adverse affects on the weldment.

After the precipitation hardening (aging) of the material in the furnace at 350F for 8 hours, what is the next step: quench in water, bury in diametaeceous earth to cool,  allow to cool to room temp on a work table, allow to cool slowly in the furnace?

Thanks for the info about the respirators.  I went to a school in Germany and was amazed at the level of interest and technical knowledge they impart to the welders there.  Still blows my mind that American schools use out of date equipment to train their technical workers. 

Best

Rebekah
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 03-24-2007 03:05
When You finally find the rest of the heat treating info I would like to hear it too.
Parent - By Eutectic (**) Date 03-24-2007 10:30 Edited 03-24-2007 11:07
Hi rebekah
Yes it will have an adverse effect in my opinion.

The purpose of alloying elements.
Mg- is primarily responsible for high strength and higher hardness through the second phase Mg2Si in the heat treatable Al-Si alloys. Usually limited to 0.7percentMg as no further strengthening takes place beyond this concentration and even some softening of the alloy maybe incurred.

Si: dramatically improves fluidity and reduces the melting point. Alone it is not heat treatable but with Cu or Mg additions they respond favorably to solution heat treatment.

Therefore, if time and money was not a constraint it would have been better to remove all the welds with the wrong filler metal.
Filler 4643 will respond to the heat treatment due to the Mg2Si phase in the weld metal.
Filler 4043 will not respond to the heat treatment on its own as is a Al-Si alloy only.

So in your weld metal and fusion line area you will have areas that have responded to the heat treatment and other areas that have not. This will lead to fairly inconsistent mechanical properties.
Now on the other hand if you have substantial dilution with the base metal and the correct filler metal you can probably end up with something that might be acceptable depending on what your acceptance criteria is.
I don't know what the effect of the dilution of all the elements might have on the crack sensitivity ranges of Al-Si-Mg or Al-Mg alloys?

For the second part
If you have a bit of time and material just run a scenario of each of the quencing cooling you described.
weld a plate setup of what your application consists of. cut into sections. 1 macro 1 transverse tensile
do the heat treatment and quenching cooling and look at the macro and do the tensile. this will give you excellent real data.

I don't have any fo on the specific alloy you are welding, but I believe that the mechanics will work the same.

I have info on Al-Cu alloys but if I apply the same principles, my conclusion is this;

When you do a solution treatment you will create vacancies in the crystal lattice. These vacancies will serve as nucleation sites for precipitates< in this case Mg2Si, by lowering the nucleation energy required for precipitation. Now if you have a fast quench you will effectively trap these excess vacancies, which is advantageous as they then contribute to the formation of GP zones. (very fine metastable phases or precipitates) with annealing these metastable phases will then grow and become more stable. And in most cases this will cause them to become bigger and courser an more incoherent with the lattice which will improve your mechanical properties (aging) up until a certain point until the lattice incoherency is so big that it reduces the properties ( over aging).

If you do a slow quench or furness cool all your formed vacancies will diffuse out of the crystal latice and therefore leave less nucleation sites for precipitates, an will yield courser micro structure.

I conclude
fast quench from solution Temperature
24h age at room temperature to form GP zones
Aging at 120 odd Deg C ( or what you come up with) for 1h/inch

Good luck
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / AL Heat Treating

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