GTAW Survey

Date 05-05-2007 00:16

For training our welders, i find ER308L filler wire very versitile.
It can be used for either training on carbon steel or stainless steel material.
For training purpose only.

By aevald

Date 05-05-2007 01:01

Hello CWI555, the other post you received replied with a filler designation, are you referring to filler or tungsten electrode? Most that I have been around have used the old school 2% thoriated tungsten, I now use 2% ceriated tungstens, am also using a lot of inverter style machines and I do believe it works better on these. Also getting away from the thoriated ones due to evidence of radiation related issues. Regards, Allan

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 05-05-2007 02:50

That old "non-consumable electrode" trick question when referring to GTAW (even if it was'nt intentional) get's them every time ;)

As Aevald or "Allan" mentioned, a 2% Ceriated "Wulfram" or Tungsten is the "non-consumable" electrode I use on 316L & 316Ti Stainless... It also works well on CP grade 2 Ti so, if you're referring to the "Tungsten" or a "non-consumable" electrode - then 2% ceriated is the way to go IMHO!

Now as far as filler wire goes, I'd have to agree with Welder 5354 when it comes to E308L ss filler wire.

Respectfully,
Henry

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 05-05-2007 12:51 Edited 05-05-2007 13:00

I'm sure Thorium is the most common on the U.S.

Europe is another matter.. ISO/EU/En's don't like thorium.

Thorium, Cerium, Lanthanum........ Are pretty much indistinguishable when manual GTA welding DC- on Ferrous. Stainless, Exotics.

For Automated GTA welding you will get more arc strikes and more consistant arc voltage for adaptive feedback systems with Lanthanum 1.5 (But the quality of lanthanum electrodes varies among vendors)

For our shop I choose Cerium... With lots of beginners who tend to want so sharpen both ends of the electrode (removing the color code) it is hard to identify what you have when you enter a work station. Cerium will perform well on AC or DC- with inverters or transformer rectifiers.

If it were not "our shop" and it was only "my shop" I would use Lanthanum 1.5 for DC- and Zirconium for AC with all varieties of power supply.

By Stephan (***)

Date 05-05-2007 13:02

Lawrence,

forgive me, but I am deeply impressed by your outstanding experience in GTAW.

May I ask if you have any idea for the reasons of the differences between the U.S. and the ISO/EU treatment of thoriated Tungsten-Electrodes?

Best regards,
Stephan

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 05-05-2007 14:02 Edited 05-05-2007 14:30

Stephan,

The difference in treatment relates to the radioactivity of Thorium.

While there has never been a single recorded case in the history of medicine of a person being sick from exposure to thorium in welding electrodes, some people still judge thorium to be a radioactivity risk.

Plenty of people have had ill effects from exposure to tungsten... especially those who mine it.

The Europeans seem to be a little more 'progressive" in their evaluations of risks.

By the way Stephan, The best lanthanum electrodes I've ever used were from "Bavarian Alloys" Well done Germany!

Edit:
http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-27.PDF

http://www.pro-fusiononline.com/tungsten/radioactivity.htm

By Stephan (***)

Date 05-05-2007 14:58 Edited 05-05-2007 16:19

Lawrence!

Thanks a lot for these fine information, which include some very new and interesting aspects for me.

I will have immediately an in depth look into the papers.

I agree 100% with you. Particularly in Germany but also as far as I have discussed this topic with other European colleagues and customers, "we Europeans" have arguably another way of dealing with the usage of thoriated Tungsten-electrodes.

Mainly - also in different official data-sheets - the usage of thoriated Tungsten-electrodes is meanwhile recommended to be avoided whereas the usage of - mainly Cer- or Lanthanium-Oxide containing Tungsten-electrodes is being recommended.

Thank you Lawrence - also for your compliments with regard to the "Bavarian Alloys" lanthanated Tungsten-electrodes ;-) !

Best regards,
Stephan

P.S. It is always a great joy for me reading your posts!

Now after having read the papers - and in particular the "Pro Fusion" paper - of which the links you have attached (great information) I could understand that some people would begin to hardly consider to continue using thoriated Tungsten-electrodes. Does not sound so good...

Nonetheless, as far as I interpret correctly what has been written, a solution is available meanwhile by using 1 1/2% or 2% lanthanated electrodes having better or at least similar properties as the thoriated ones. So far as they have a continuously quality in their processing-quality, just as you have mentioned.

By the way, but it was just a personal thought when I have read the measures for protecting the welder or user, respectively. They have investigated the dust being generated by grinding the electrodes. What is - so my question - the matter with the "nice" fume being created when unintentionally pushing the thoriated Tungsten-Electrode into the melt while welding? I would suppose this fume would also content larger amounts of Thoriumoxide and thus it would be certainly better to not take a deep exhalation..?

By CWI555

Date 05-05-2007 15:04

To all,

It was in fact the electrode and not the filler I was referring to.
I've noted a trend away from the 2% thoriated. Cerium oxide (ceria) is the relative new kid on the block,
and the lanthanum oxide (lanthana) are viable alternatives to their thoriated brethern.

Having said that I was trying to get an idea as to the degree that thoriated has been moved out the door
in the U.S. At one time 2% Thoriated was about all one would find for stainless and others, but that does
not appear to be the case anymore.
I cannot find a definitive document that covers this one way or another, and therefore my question to the
knowledgeable folks in the forum.

To refine my question:
Has 2% thoriated been predominantly replaced by alternatives at this point in time due to the associated risk?

Regards,
Gerald

By Stephan (***)

Date 05-05-2007 15:30

Hey Gerald!

Honestly driven on by the great information coming from Lawrence and the hint to the "Bavarian Alloys", I have guessed that these were perhaps to find under:

http://www.wolfram-industrie.com/english/index.htm .

Another interesting link with - eventually - interesting information with regard to your topic may also be:

http://www.plansee.com/hlw/index_ENG_HTML.htm

I hope this may help a tiny bit...

Best regards,
Stephan

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 05-05-2007 18:33 Edited 05-05-2007 18:53

Gerald,

Since you refined your question I had to think myself.

Even though I have no worries about thorium and radioactivity. None. I still purchase Cerium and Lanthanum for my DC- usage...

...bottom line, I purchase no thorium.

Stephen,

During my career in the Aerospace field I was part of a team that worked with Sciaky Accuweld automated GTAW equipment. Many of our projects required adaptive feedback monotoring of Arc Voltage integrated into controls for the Z-axis (realtime adjustment of electrode distance from work) Our requiements were very strict because 1/10 volt fluctuation could cause the electrode to dive into the work or lift away so far that problems occur. Even a few degrees difference on the included angle of the tip prep would cause significant differences in arc voltage in relationship to axces control.

We did trials on tungstens during R&D projects, some programs could run as many as 300 arc strikes from a 0.040 tungsten electrode with each arc strike required to be perfect in order to heat a very small weld area. Other trials were single arc strikes that would run as long as a 6 or 7 hour duration with synchronized pulsation on buildups of large diameter (0ver 50 inches) thin (some lands as thin as 0.025) knife edges composed of inconel 718, Hastelloy X, Inco 901 and titanium air seals. We found that nothing worked even close to lanthanum. All other mixes tended to gather a sort of *oxide dust* at the tip that would eventually distort the arc and cause voltage fluctuations.

The worst lanthanum electrodes (due to differing powder metallurgy practices in production) were overly ductile (something you don't want in a tungsten) and tended to have very small longitudinal fractures that were difficult to see without magnification but would become apparent once the automated program sequence began (a big headache to restart)

As an operator rather than an engineer in these trials my focus was on what made nice welds and required the least amount of attention from me as the programs went through their sequences.

By Stephan (***)

Date 05-05-2007 20:25

Lawrence!

At the latest now I know, why Henry has bestowed the title "Lawrence of Wulfram" upon you!

Thank you once more for these precious information...

Kind regards,
Stephan

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 05-06-2007 04:18

Hi CWI555!
Here are some other links that I've kept over the years in my bookmarks (currently over 4 gigabytes worth and shortly approaching 5!!!) which explains why I need many external drives, and I still have my old but faithful Compaq SCSI workstation (2gigs' of RAM w/ECC) that I use for quick data retrieval & storage via "Daisychaining" 10 - 36 gig scsi 10K rpm hard drives within my own self-built network made up of mostly salvaged parts besides my newest creation that includes an Intel Quad core water cooled with 4gig's of RAM and almost 3 terabytes of storage with full data backup which also includes RAID via my 2 "Raptor" hard drives!!!

I also put together a few SATA connected external hard drives for extra storage enclosed in the best made external hard drive enclosures by Antec!!! Pricey but worth it!!! Because you never know how much space one is going to need to store all of my curiosity, all of my entertainment and all of my information... Btw, my stuff is protected by some heavy duty data protection besides what's encrypted and that's only if one penetrates my physical (Hardware based) firewall only to be blocked by at least three or more that is - if they get through the first one!!! ;)

The only downside of having all of this data is the constant maintaining of it all!!! The good thing is that I'm always finding stuff that either is relevant to me or not and so I try to maintain a constant 60 to 70% free space in each drive so as to maintain efficiency... Anywho, I've got to catch myself before I brag too much about my own self built network so here's what I found that you and others might find interesting that's related to this thread:

http://www.pro-fusiononline.com/tungsten/material.htm
http://www.twi.co.uk/j32k/protected/band_13/faq_thoriated.html
http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-27.PDF
http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-02.PDF
http://www.iem-inc.com/prmade9.html
http://www.iem-inc.com/prmad9r.html
http://www.hse.gov.uk/fod/infodocs/564_6r.pdf
http://www.huntingdonfusion.com/downloadfiles/HSE%20Thoriated%20Tungstens.pdf
http://www.ndt.net/article/ecndt2006/doc/Th.3.5.5.pdf
http://www.multistriketungstens.com/downloads/TWIreport.pdf
http://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWelding/ArcWelding_Article.cfm?ID=511

Here's a good article originating from Japan that CWI555, Larry and Stephan will find interesting:
http://www.jniosh.go.jp/english/indu_hel/pdf/ih_41_3_18.pdf

Here's an MSDS for Hypertherm's 2% thoriated W:
https:/.../u01/app/oracle/library/Safety%20and%20Regulatory/MSDS/HyperthermThoriatedTungstenGrade_180667.pdf

This one is from Thermal Dynamics otherwise known as Thermadyne nowadays (interesting that they list thorium dioxide as opposed to thorium oxide - hmmmm):
http://www.thermadyne.com/thermaldynamics/literature/pdfs/msds/TR703.pdf
http://www.thermadyne.com/thermaldynamics/literature/pdfs/msds/TR703.pdf

Another MSDS sheet from BOC in "Kiwi" land otherwise known as New Zealand:
https://pgw100.portal.gases.boc.com/boc_sp/nz/safety/0169.pdf

An interesting Abstract that the NIH uses as one of it's primary sources of citing empirical data in their own publications with respect to potential health risks involved with exposure to 2% thoriated W in the workplace:
http://rpd.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/103/4/349
Scroll down when you get to this link:
http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=SIZEX7-2

Cool info in this link with respect many different types of radioactve materials used to make many commonly used items years ago:
http://www.blackcatsystems.com/science/radprod.html

Here's a link that has some cool info on "Wolfram" or Sometimes spelled "Wulfram" otherwise known as tungsten:
http://www.flokal.com/html/products/tun/tun.htm
Here's all of their tungsten engineered products including Yttriated Tungsten electrodes for GTAW... This is a Dutch company called Flokal:
http://www.flokal.com/html/products/tun/tun_alloys.htm

This one is a link to many abstracts regarding the exposure to 2% thoriated W due to welding & grinding or other industrial working exposure:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&itool=abstractplus&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=7730071

Hey Larry! you might find this abstract interesting:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=8396174&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

You'll get a kick out of this FAQ from Huntington Fusion Technologies:
http://www.huntingdonfusion.com/HFT/modules.php?name=FAQ&myfaq=yes&id_cat=8&categories=Techweld+Multistrike+Tungstens
Here's their "Techweld Multi Strike" showpage:
http://huntingdonfusion.com/HFT/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=11
Here's there main "Multi strike" W .pdf articles page:
http://www.huntingdonfusion.com/HFT/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1
Here's their "Multi-Strike.com" homepage:
http://www.multistriketungstens.com/

Here's Miller Electric's via weldcraft's take on the subject:
http://www.millerwelds.com/education/articles/articles83.html

Here's the Miller Electric "Millerwelds GTAW handbook .pdf:

Here's an actual appeal to a Law Suit filed by an inmate employed by the State of Texas Corrections industries related directly to the plaintiff's exposure of 2% Thoriated W electrodes and their grinding produced dust while welding for TCI:
http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/03/03-50650-CV0.wpd.pdf

Interesting Data here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium

This .pdf article from the USGS is old (1995) but, it has some interesting facts in it with respect to thorium oxide & thorium nitrate fro the US Geological Survey:
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/thorium/690495.pdf

Another oldie but, goodie from the Oak Ridge Associated Universities:
http://www.orau.org/PTP/collection/consumer%20products/weldingrod.htm

A good link:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts147.html

http://web.lemoyne.edu/~giunta/ruthsod.html

Hi Stephan! If you could get access to these publication on "your side of the pond" you will find some interesting information: ;)
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=5206445
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1843023

Here's another interesting article abstract:
http://www.baua.de/en/Publications/Research-reports/1997/Fb767.html

I almost forgot Stephan! You probably already seen this one from the European Union:
http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/transport/doc/final-version-study1.pdf

You might just like this one also:
http://ean.cepn.asso.fr/DosAugsburg/Final_doc/Session_2/S2_06_Kunz.pdf

Then again, it would'nt be fair to exclude anyone of the entire conference proceedings of the 9th European ALARA network workshop on "Occupational Exposure to Natural Radiation" held in Augsburg, Germany in October of 2005 @ this link in either .pdf or .ppt format:
http://ean.cepn.asso.fr/DosAugsburg/program9.html

Here's some more stuff from Plansee:
http://www.lencocanada.com/pdf.d/500-06.pdf

Throium Data from EnvironmentalChemistry.com:
http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/periodic/Th.html

Another intersting link for all who yearn to learn more:
http://theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/090/

More interesting data on the elementknown as Tungsten:
http://www.topmim.com/tungstenshielding.htm

Another good link:
http://www.speclab.com/elements/thorium.htm

Here's some interesting stories slightly off-topic:
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/environment/common_radioactive_items.htm

Air samples did'nt turn out so bad in this study's abstract after all when all was said and done!!! Certainly below the DAC:
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=249957

Check out this MS Word .Doc from CK Worldwide:
http://www.ckworldwide.com/MSDS.doc

Finally, these are some of the beneficial uses of radiation in society today:
http://nuclear.inl.gov/docs/factsheets/beneficial_uses_radiation_1003.pdf

I hope these link are helpful inunderstanding the true facts regarding thorium and thoriated tungstens and the beneficial uses of radiation in society today. I also want to apologize to anyone that did'nt care too much when I briefly described my own personal home network which I built from parts myself ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By Stephan (***)

Date 05-06-2007 10:45

Hmmmmmmmm!

Henry, what you have posted is just like a 2 $ multiple filled Belgium truffle praline for me.

It has to be savoured...

A heartfelt "Thank you" for these information!

Kind regards,
Stephan

By CWI555

Date 05-06-2007 11:41

A lot of good information there Henry. I can't really comment on some of it as I've maxed my ALI on more than once occasion. The one thing I've learned in years of working around and with radioactive elements is the ALARA principle. As low as reasonably achievable. If there is a reasonable alternative that will limit or eliminate the potential it should be taken. My life time dose is in excess of 45R, and in my later years I've been more and more acutely aware of that growing number. Hence my move to get out of the nukes and RT and into less ionizing fields. I would have to agree that the information shows that the risk are minimal with 2% thoria. However; based on the alara principle I would have to disagree that even that small risk is necessary. Given that Ceria and lantha can provide the same same quality of welds without any real risk to quality, I can't see the risk, albeit minimal, as being necessary.

Thats my personal take on it.

In saying that, the purpose of the post was to get a rough idea how much the general welding community in the states have moved away from the 2% thoria if any.

On the computer front, Thats a nice set up. I'll have to post some specs to my server in the bar and grill.

Regards,
Gerald

By 803056

Date 05-06-2007 15:12

Hello Henry;

I'm going to need a month or two to read and digest all the information in the links you provided. I'm going to hire you to hook up my next laptop system. I only have three external hard drives, it should be a snap for you.

Hello Stephan;

I posted a question on a DIN standard. Do you have any experience with DIN 29591? I was asked "How often does a welder has to requalify by testing per DIN 29591?" I have no idea, I've never used that standard. Another question was "What is the number assigned to GTAW under ISO 4063?" Again, I have no idea. Do you?

Does any one know?

Best regards - Al

By Stephan (***)

Date 05-06-2007 17:13 Edited 05-06-2007 17:15

Hello Al!

Thank you for giving me the feeling of "being beneficial", it's a real good one ;-) and an opportunity to give back a tiny part of that what I could already receive from you and the others in the forum .

1. "How often does a welder has to requalify by testing per DIN 29591?"

Under "normal" conditions the verification for steel- and aluminum-welders is based on DIN EN 287 part 1 (steel) and DIN EN 287 part 2 (aluminum and aluminum-alloys). DIN EN = Abbreviation for Deutsches Institut für Normung / EuroNorm = German + European valid standard. But there are two further different verifications in Germany, based on DIN standards. This is "Welding of Concrete-steels" (DIN 4099) and "Welding in Aerospace" (Verification of Welders, Welding of metallic components" DIN 29591). As you can see, these standards are national valid ones (DIN). Basically in all verifications (DIN EN or DIN only) the testing of the welders involves their manual-skill and the theoretical knowledge. Likewise there is no difference in the period of validity for the verification between DIN EN or only DIN standards for welders.

This means:

- The verification's period of validity is normally 2 years. Therefore the employer or the responsible person at the employer (Certified Welding Engineer) have to confirm every 6 months that the welder is:

1. welding regular (maximal period of interruption in welding practice = 6 months!).

2. welding within the ambit of his welding-verification.

3. no any doubts on the manual- and theoretical skill of the welder can be reported.

A prolongation of the welder-verification for the period of further 2 years is possible when:

- appropriate test-reports on the quality of the manufactured welds - carried out by the welder whose verification should be prolonged - can be presented to the official welding inspector or the official welding inspecting authority. E.g. confirmed test-documents non-destructive material test-reports (radiography, ultrasonic, ...) or destructive material test-reports (tensile- or fracture-test).

2. "What is the number assigned to GTAW under ISO 4063?

GTAW according to ISO 4063 "Welding and allied processes - Nomenclature of processes and reference numbers" has the number: 141.

In my eyes the ISO 4063 catalogue has fortunately a relative logical structure:

Arc Welding is basically the Number: 1
After that, different processes were listed up to number 114 (Self-shielded tubular cored arc-welding).

Next comes Number 12, which is the basis for the Submerged Arc-Welding processes (up to number 125 = SAW with tubular cored electrode).

Then follow the Gas Shielded Metal Arc Welding processes: Number 13, going up to number 1355 (gas metal arc brazing).

Then comes Number 14 which is "Gas shielded welding with non consumable electrode" and the next following number is "141" which stands for "Gas Tungsten Arc Welding with Inert Gas".

I honestly hope to having written all in an understandable way...

Thank you and my best regards,
Stephan

By 803056

Date 05-06-2007 17:33

Hello Stephen;

Informative, concise, and exactly what I was looking for.

I don't usually work with the European standards, so I am unfamiliar with these requirements. I will pass this information along to those people that asked the question.

Thank you very much. Maybe I will be able to return the favor some day.

Now I have a story to tell you. I was at the airport with my family (years before all the airport security you see in today's airports) getting ready to go on a business trip. I saw some folks disembarking from one of the transatlantic flights and I could hear they were speaking Dutch or German. I saw one fellow that had a really neat seaman's cap. So I tried to speak with the fellow, luckily he spoke broken English, because I do not speak Dutch or any language other than English. I told him I would like a cap like his and I gave him a slip of paper with my mailing address and $20.00.

My wife and her mother thought I was crazy to give a stranger $20.00 and expect them to send me anything.

My father-in-law said, "You'll get your cap. The Dutch and Germans are very honest people. If he accepted your money, you'll get your cap."

Two months later, I receive a package with the cap. However, there was no return address, so I wasn't even able to send the gentlemen a "thank you note". I still have the cap and often wonder how they enjoyed their time in the US.

Again, thanks for the information.

Best regards - Al

By Stephan (***)

Date 05-07-2007 18:14

Hello Al!

Thank you for your kindly reply, makes me glad that the information has been useful for you!

Thanks also for the nice story...

As you can imagine I would be proud if the fellow who has sent you the cap has been a German gentleman. But however, your father in law was surely right when he predicated that not only the Germans try to be very honest people, but also the Dutch.

Our countries are good neighbours and some of the best colleagues I have met, came and do come from the Netherlands.

The only thing where we're really not in the mood to understand any fun in competition to each other is... soccer!

Due to I not know how the gentleman - presumed he was a German - enjoyed his time in the United States of America I would like to answer for him.

I have been twice in the USA. Spartanburg South Carolina in 1998 and Atlanta in 2006, where I have attended the AWS Welding Show and two Welding Conferences (great).

I can truly tell you I have enjoyed every single minute in your wonderful country!

And I hope to have the chance to come back soon, and so - I suppose - also the gentleman has thought!

Take care and all the best,
Stephan

By js55

Date 05-07-2007 18:36

Stephen,
Spartanburg SC?
I lived 4 miles south of Spartanburg for 3 years. People usually visit Greenville instead. Just right down the road, though its getting to where you can't tell where one ends and the other begins any more.
Actually the area is quite a little hot bed of welding. Manufacturing is huge in the area. You have GE, BMW, and one of the largest pipe fabricators on the planet, as well as EPRI just an hour north in Charlotte. The growth in the area has been second to none in the last ten years.

By Stephan (***)

Date 05-08-2007 18:10

Hey js55,

first of all, I am sure you really won't believe when I would tell you how I rejoice reading what you have written - but I do!

Secondly, I must apologize for the visit's date in Spartanburg. I have had a look into my old passport and have seen it wasn't 1998 but February 2000. Excuse me!

I have been there with my colleague Gerald (from Austria), at BMW in Spartanburg South Carolina for supporting two German Welding Engineers from Munich, in implementing the manually MIG-Brazing process within their production. And as so often, unfortunately we haven't seen very much from Spartanburg and its surrounding area. I can remember we have stayed in the Marriotts and we wondered about the absolute excellent service they had.

I have met great people over there. I can remember the responsible BMW Welding Engineer, Bill Allen and an excellent welder, Duke Moses, who was the body shop trainer, also apprenticing the welding staff. What I can further remember was a large billboard very good visible at the right hand side of the motorway, when we have left the BMW Plant, every day. There one could read, "BMW X5 - Built here, Driven anywhere!"

In coherence with the people I have cooperated with in the BMW, I have a well remembrance on a talk we had. Duke Moses was - as mentioned - a very good welder and he was able to use the MIG-Brazing process already a very short time after we have introduced it there. As I saw that I said to him: "Duke, I am sure you could get a good job over there in the German BMW Plants to show the German welders how to use the process in consummation!" What about leaving the USA to do so?" And I will never forget what he answered. He said to me: "Stephan, what about your country. Do you have the freedom in Germany to walk to the next WallMart, buying yourself a fishing rod, after that walk to the next lake to go fishing?" And I said: "No, this is not possible!" In Germany you have to know the valid fishing laws, have to become a member of your local fishing club, perform a test to get a valid fishing license, pay your yearly due and after that you can probably walk to a lake to go fishing!"

Duke smiled and said to me: "So Stephan, now you know the reason why I am so proud on my country and I will never leave it until the day I die!"

I understood!

When I left the Plant and Spartanburg after a week he asked me finally: "Stephan did you enjoy your time in the USA and do you like my country?"

I answered a heartfelt "YES!" and it was the truth.

It makes me glad to hear, that the region of Spartanburg has grown in the last ten years, the people there have really deserved it!

By the way, my colleague Gerald has enjoyed the time in the USA exactly as I did. The only difference between us, he has ventured some years later to move to the USA to work there for my employer. I have visited him last year in Brighton Michigan, after attending the AWS Welding Conferences.

Thank you for your reply and best regards,
Stephan

By js55

Date 05-08-2007 18:31

Stephen,
The BMW plant was 15 minutes from my home. And the very reason that Greenville-Spartanburg (of which the plant is actually in between the two) can claim to have an 'International' airport(to enable BMW personnel to fly back and forth more conveniently). Unless you are going to Germany you most often hub through either Charlotte or Atlanta for International flights. As you know, it is quite small, but actually a rather beautiful airiport.
And you are right, the people there are good people. I have many friends there I miss and still communicate with.