"If the Authorized Inspector sees it and says something, then we'll fix it."
This is pretty much the final response I have recieved from my boss. To all that read my previous post "starting to hate my job", here's the details of the discussions over the past week. Corporate QA came down to advise the situation yesterday, and upon leaving not much was resolved. The lead welder, "king", had his side in that I'm way too harsh and the things I mark up for repair, and of course there was my side that said criteria is criteria, and for certain indications, zero means zero!!! Well the corporate guy basically said that some of the things I had marked such as cold lap or non-fusion, he probably would not have marked and had repaired. Keep in mind that he was welder long ago, but never an inspector. So basically right off the bat, I've got corporate against me. Then everyone suggest that we get another inspector to double check me. Well, the "king" suggested it. That's when I piped up about radiographers and UT techs that have called repairs....do we call another inspection company in to "double check" the repairs. Nope!! Than again came the "will it actually effect the function or safety of the vessel?" When a radiograph gets rejected, does everyone from the shop go to the RT tech and tell him that the rejected slag line will not cause the vessel to blow up? Nope! But here, when I mark up a spot of undercut that is greater than a 1/32" (which is rejectable), even when its only a 1/16th long, I'm being too harsh. When I mark a spot of non-fusion or cold lap (rejectable, none allowed) where I can see that part of the toe is not tied into the base metal, or the end of the bead is not fully tied in at the stopping point, or where the cap slightly rolls over the fusion line of the toe, when it's not hideously huge and reaching out and smacking you on the butt...I'm being too harsh. Well, to cut out all of the BS that happened yesterday, I'll get to the results of today.
A vessel came up for inspection. I immediately went to my boss and asked what he wanted me to do - Inspect it, or leave it for the AI to deal with (because his comments yesterday were that if the AI signs off on it, it's considred good). He suggested that he and I, along with the welder all inspect it together. Or, I inspect it, point out any indications and we'll all discuss them. On to the inspection - I immediately found a pin hole in the root pass of a nozzle...discussed and all agreed to remove it. A different weld revealed some undercut that was in a location that made measurement impossible, but past experience told me that it was rejectable...discussed and decided to leave it. Another weld revealed a spot of non-fusion where the end of the bead left a very small pin hole shaped indication where it did not tie in....discussed to leave it. A few other spots revealed more undercut and one more spot of non-fusion. The final discussion lead by my boss was that of all the indications noted more than likely would not effect the vessel due to the working pressures and such. Then asked what do we do...do we fix it, or do we take a gamble in hopes that the AI will pass it. Asked me what I thought and I said that it does not meet code and we can not rely on the AI to catch defects, that it is the AI that relies on the mfg to assure code compliance. Then the question went to the welder. "I'm a gambling man, and I'll bet an entire paycheck that the AI will pass that vessel" was his response. The the reply from the boss "Well I think that's what we'll do. We'll let it go as is and if the AI doesn't see it and reject it, and he signs off on it, well then we'll call it good"!!
To add to that, as I started my inspection, my boss told the welder how good the weld looked. His words "I don't know if it'll pass, but it sure looks pretty". Then the one that made me bite my tongue and took everything I had to not walk off the job..."how often do you get your eyes checked?" I told him yearly. "Well I think all inspectors should be required to have it twice a year". All of this within talking distance of the welder and "king", while they laugh about his comments and make seperate jokes pertaining to my vision. All of this before I even started my inspection.
If it weren't for a wife and 3 kids, I'd be out of here today!!!
Pro 9:7 He who corrects a scoffer gets himself abuse, and he who reproves a wicked man incurs injury.
Pro 15:12 A scoffer does not like to be reproved; he will not go to the wise.
Lets see...... There is....
"...and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you."
and
It is like sport to a fool to do wrong, but wise conduct is pleasure to a man of understanding.
Tito....... Sombody out there will be very happy to have an inspector with a spine.
You are passing importent tests!
Well done.
Log everything......!
Perhaps you need to have a heart to heart with your AI and let him know the difficulties you've been experiencing and the attitudes you're dealing with? I too am extraordinarily frustrated with my work but for the exact opposite reason... too heavy on the quality side, many too many checks and balances which cause us to repeatedly fail to see the forest because of all the tree's...
I am seriously contemplating discussing this with my AI. However, I'm have a very strong feeling that if I inform the AI that he NEEDS to, or STRONGLY SUGGEST that he perform a visual inspection, I may be out of work. Wouldn't bother me one bit if I had something lined up already...but I'll work on that soon. I'm simply not going to sign off on the traveler for the visual inspection, and if questioned, I will tell him that if it's good enough for him, than it's good enough for the shop.
Bad part is, I know how most of these AI's are - they stand back and witness hydro and casually glance over the welds, and unless something jumps out at them, they won't discover it. Especially the non-fusion that I spotted. Very small opening at the end of the bead, and unless you have a good light source and a keen eye, it'll get missed.
AI's, like CWI's come in a variety of flavors. I've known several who, as you mention, are most concerned with the pressure test. I do believe however any AI / CWI worth their salt will stand behind the written word. I can certainly appreciate your concern over the possibility of losing your job but it sounds like you should be looking for a new one anyway. You may also have grounds for wrongful termination if you handle your cards properly... Damn, I can't believe I'm even suggesting the possibility of litigation... lol, obviously I'm NOT a law-suit happy American but in your case, I believe if you got booted, you could end up with some cash-o-la... lol!!!
At the end of the day there will be those who stand up for their beliefs and those who roll over and take it... don't be one of the laters....
Changing minds takes time. Habits are hard to break, and welders habits perhaps most of all, especially when your telling them there is a faster or better way to do what they have been doing since they were in diapers. Or, as in your case, what they are doing is not good enough. It really ruffles some feathers.
I've worked in quite a few plants and upon walking into them for the first time it was a battle. Every single one of them was a battle.
Work hard. Study hard. Know your stuff. Don't get mad. And it, and respect, will come.
yep. It takes time and loads of energy, for sure. Some battles are won, some lost... knowing when you're in a situation you can't win is where experience comes in.
jon,
I can sure sympathize with your problem too. We used to call it the nukie shuffle. Hold points up the pazoo, inspection, documentation, wait, wait, wait, Part 21 'Oh my God!!!'.
And then you get a 31.1, 31.3, or Section VIII'er and its like the walking dead. You got welders waitin on progressive mags for Sch 10.
The only person you can count on is yourself. Do your job and let everybody else do (Or dont) theirs. You sound like you are in the right and its a difficult spot to be in. Inspect to the code / contract specifications and document everything. You could get this ship to turn course eventually but not every one needs to be a hero. Hopefully you can jump off that "Titanic" and get aboard a company that knows what they are doing, has a quality program in place and wants you there as much as you want to be there. They are out there. Talk with your AI, You have a common goal to provide a product that meets the minimum requirements of the code. Your client relies on you to make sure the product they are buying meets that code. Besides if you dont write it down it could be argued that one didnt see something. If its documented then it cant be ignored and must be dealt with, even if its a signature it wont be yours. When all else fails refer to my post above.
I feel your pain buddy...
Most Quality Systems are set up so that the Quality Manager reports directly to the company president. This is deliberately done to avoid the QM being placed under or reporting to the Production Manager, as the two generally do not mix.
When you make an inspection that, according to your ASME certification, is completed to verify the minimum code requirements, that's exactly what you do. Verify minimum code requirements. When Inspectors get in trouble is when they try to verify some requirements but not all, or attempt to interpret the code in a favorable manner. If you do this once, you'll be expected to do so over and over again.
The secret behind doing this without all the arguing and BS is the documentation. Make sure that you are using a good document format for your inspection results that contain areas for detailed defect description, applicable Code section and paragraph references, and weld maps for exact defect location. Then, keep in mind that once you have turned in a truthful, code compliant and accurate report, you've done your job.
If the President or Production Manager or whoever wants to sign off on the report as being acceptable, or repairs not required, then so be it. As long as there is a statement in the QA Manual that provides for this, you're in the clear and your butt is covered.
Now when the AI is called in, he/she reviews all of the required documentation and makes the final decision whether to approve or disapprove. If the AI won't approve until certain defects are repaired, then I bet the production guys will make required repairs real quick. If the President gets mad because he has to pay for lengthy or return AI visits, then he'll put the pressure on the production guys to have the damn vessel done right before the AI gets there.
It's all part of the endless, silly battle between production and quality. It boils down to money spent on labor hours for rework.
Good Luck,
Tim
My only advise is something that I was taught a long time ago and that is "Chapter and Verse". You show the welder, the boss and even "King" the "chapter and Verse" that you have to follow (code, specs. whatever). Once they see/read it for themselves, there really should be no arguement.
Best of luck
Ah-ha, if only that were true in my case. Not sure how many are familiar with ASME sec VIII, but visual inspection is not as clear cut and defined as it is in say, D1.1. However, I copied various pages and paragraphs, underlined either the clear cut black and white criteria for certain things, and other sections that hinted to certain things. I also e-mailed my AI with questions pertaining to the areas that were not 100% spelled out in the code, and he confirmed my interpretations. This stack of hi-lighted and underlined paragraphs along with the e-mail from my AI was sent to my corporate QC and my boss....this was last monday.
As the QC inspector, your duties are covered in the company QC manual. As the QC inspector, performing the duties outlined in the QC manual, it is your responsibility to mark all areas not conforming to the specifications. You document what you find, sign of the inspection report andgive it to the QC manager. If there is to be any discussion on what is rejectable, repariable or acceptable, it should be solved at the QCmanager and shop foreman level. If something you have marked for repair is accepted by the QC manager or shop foreman, it is THEIR responsibility. If they have you reinspect the work, you reject it again. One thing to remember if you are building pressure vessels, if it fails and someone dies, lawyers sue everyone big enough to die. Be sure you keep a daily journal and be sure your QC manager and the"King of Spark Idiots" knows what you are doing. In the mean time, polish up your resume, get it out and test the job market. Inspectors like you are in very high demand. I must caution you though, NEVER mention this activity in a job interview. Never mention this to your future HR people. When you leave for a better company and you have a exit interview, unload on them. THen walk away with your journal and integrity. These people deserve each other. Get revenge by living well and sleeping well at night.
BABRT's
Hello Big K;
Unfortunately for Tito, he is the QC manager!
I tend to agree with many of the comments made by others;
- mark it up,
- write it up,
- photograph the areas of concern, and
- keep copies for your personal records that you keep even if and when you leave the company.
The next person in the food chain should be the plant manager, CEO, president, or owner. They have the ultimate final say at the corporate level. They have the "power" to either agree with you or to disagree with you. If they agree, the repairs are completed and all is well (you're still a SOB, but you sleep easy at night). If they disagree, they over-ride your call and the vessel is accepted by them (it's not your signature aceepting the vessel at this point). The vessel moves on and it is either accepted or rejected by the AI. Again, you've done your job to the best of your ability and you should be able to sleep at ease. If the discrepance is so severe that you simple can't live with the decision of upper management, you need to discuss it with the AI (at this point you should probable be looking for gainful employment elsewhere so that you can sleep at night and not second guess the decisions you've made).
There are time when you have to make that difficult call and determine if the job is worth the money you're being paid. Many of us have made those decisions at one time or another. Things may look dark and hopeless, but no job is worth lossing sleep over or getting sick over. Remember, "you were looking for a job when you took this one." There always another job, maybe not the same job, but that's not always a bad thing.
Best regards - Al
Keeping a journal is a must. Make sure you write down what you do everyday. Even the mundane things you may need to recall at a later date to have to explain yourself months down the road.
I have had my run ins with the same type of welders that you have. Throwing temper tantrums and hardhats as well. I just refuse to even talk to them if they become like that. I will only talk to their supervisor if it comes down to them acting like that. I won't back down from a call I made either. You can't be wishy washy. That will only plant a seed in their heads that you can be manipulated and don't really have a grip on what you are doing.
If a client wants to override a call I made I don't care. They can if they want. They usually never want to accept something that you rejected unless they realize that you don't know what you are doing.
There will always be whiners that complain about everything you do. Ignore them if you can. Just stick to your guns and as long as you have valid reason for making the decision that you did you should not have any problems. Make sure you have everything documented as well.
When some one claims that I must be wrong or don't know what I am doing I just show them my ASNT (not grandfathered either) card and ask them "where's yours"? That usually gets my point accross.
how long would it actually take to fix these defects? Sounds like only a few minutes, to me. You are dealing with a bunch of retards. careful dealing with the outside inspector, you don't want 'your guys' to find out anything
Some of the repairs I have seen can take anywhere from 15 minutes to over an hour. Sometimes the weld itself can take 5 hours to make the weld because of the wall thickness. Most of the time they are only allowed one time to repair it then after that it is a cut out. Sometimes it is a cut out just based on the percentage of the circumference that the defect is.
I can see why they can get upset but some of them just go off the deep end refusing to even believe you and throwing their hardhats around yelling. I just shrug my shoulders and let them know that I wasn't one that put the defect in the weld.
Lots of jobs the guys are on will have to go back for welder testing or just simply get run off if they get too many repairs.
In this case, the defects are relatively minor. Were talking about possibly a brush with the grinder, or a small spot of weld to fill in some undercut.
By g32141 
Date 05-25-2007 03:06
Edited 05-25-2007 04:54
That's even more pathetic then.
Just ignore them. Keep doing what you think is correct the way you interpret the code. You said that they were never subjected to inspections before. Sounds like the welders that fix carnival rides trying to weld over cracks and grease. They seem like sabre rattlers. Don't take it personally.
As far as your boss trying to get you to let you try to get over on the AI that is inexcusable. Somewhere in this thread someone mentioned that if an AI rejected something that you marked up but were coerced into unmarking it up who looks bad? Not the guy that talked you into overlooking it but you. He'd distance himself from you in a heartbeat and then slag you off to the rest of the management because the AI would need to come back after the rework is done.
As long as you can back up what you say and can go home and sleep at night that is all that matters.
You need really thick skin to deal with lots of people in this bussiness and you can't let them get under your thick skin.
When I put back on the inspection hat I am in the same boat as 1316. All structural these days and a lot of hassle to go with it. I get the call when the others (inspectors) fall short. "Positioning" on the job it an acquired skill for sure. It certainly takes a knack of dealing with people to get to end of the project. I am fully aware of the D-1.1 code as it is written. And if the the general attitude went along with the thinking outlined in the code then this would be a cake of a job. But it isn't. Not today, not tomorrow, and from my predecessors I have learned, not even yesterday. Seems as getting compliance to this code has long been a hassle. Dealing the personalities is the biggest challenge. "Posturing" yourself to deal with the "personalities" to get the job to meet the minimum spec is the key to it all. Incidently,you will not find this "personality" information in the code book anywhere.
Since generally speaking, the code you are working to represents the minimum standard; then it stands to reason that a "minimum welder" should be well matched to meet the minimum standard. A " Good Welder" would be an above average match to get work completed to the code compliance with very occasional need for rework. A "Great Welder" would be the guy who always completes work that is code compliant and is also able to point out when asked where he/she could improve even further. This is the guy/gal who makes it seems effortless. Speed, quality, consistency all rolled into one human.
If "King of Sparks Idiot" does not meet the minimum standard, then any of the above ratings do not apply. You as inspector are given liberty to create your own rating such as "can't weld his way out paper bag".
Now certainly you could never actually say this title to this person. That would be rude! You can however, Posture yourself, your thinking and subsequently your actions/reactions to take this well deserved "descriptive title" into account. Very soon after you now begin to communicate and react to this individual with this mind set, you will notice a change in demeanor in this person. First it will be adversarial for a short time. Then it will slowly develop into a reaction where they will be questioning your inspection results less of the time. Next you will o find less of a need to validate your position through explanation of code issues. After more time, you will see a more concerted effort on "KING's" part to do compliant work so as to avoid the continula scrutiny. Similar to the way humans seeks to gain acceptance from their peers.
For your part in this, youmust be very consistent almost mechanical in the way you do things. You should speak little and write a lot. Let the welder see you carry additional notes over and above the inspection report. For variety, snap some pictures of what you see. I'm not talking digital here but rather good old fashioned 35mm yeilding negatives that are not readily changed. Be sure to tqake pictures of both good and bad welds for this exercise. Make sure you develop them into the largest photo format you can afford and then write the date on them, but do not label them with the wlder's name or identification. Now leave these lying around in small piles in your office. So as to encourage other's to pick them up and look at them. Pretty soon other welders and such will begin to look through them and comment both positively and negatively on the images. Sort like a baby picture kind of review. They will take full credit for weld they can begin to recognize as good. And chastise the other welders for welds that are bad. This starts the peer pressure amongst them as egos are now involved.
You however, must remain neutral at all times through this being very reserved aboout your opinions and thoughts about the people who preformed these welds. Let them critique each other. Respond if asked about weld quality with very generic responses such as "weld complies with code." "weld meets minimum standard" etc. If you witness welding that is really good then reward them with a very understated "weld easily complies with code spec". If you witness something exemplary you can loose a little of the deadpan reaction and compliment with something like "that weld is an excellent example of quality work. Unquestionably exceeds the code minimum specs."
Soon you will have them thinking as they weld about the quality of the work performed so as to win acceptance and avoid ridicule. Since most people react to one or the other, you have both the bases covered and should be quickly achieving your goal of code compliant work.
Personal inner strength well postured is the key to all this. If you give this some deep thought you will see. You must never sound in your voice or in your actions as weak or unsure. You are highly educated in this stuff. You are also , at this time, limited in experience of execution of your knowledge. Maintaining steadfast in your resolve is criticalhere. Being calculating in your delivery even more so!! Develop a mindset that says to yourself "I am unwavering in my strength but gracious in my actions" "I will let you (King of All Sparks Idiot) be stupid as long as you want"! "I will even smile when you do as the tantrums are very amusing". But never forget, it is not that my inspections are bad or harsh, but rather you Mr./Mrs. Welder don't weld good enough!!
It is a shame that talent like yours seems wasted on these simpletons you work with. But the lessons you are learning here are invaluable for a long inspection career. You will make some mistakes in your efforts as outlined adn may probably grow impatient awaitng results. But stand tall and take it all with grace and dignity on the outside. Careful, consistent and caluclating on the inside. If you can develop yourself to the point where it appears to others that you care about little else other then good compliant welds. Your halfway home!! Just never let them think that you care enough about the lousy welders to even get mad! Practice an attitude of "indifference" with the difficult ones. Just be careful doing so so as to minimally gracious without being condescending.
BTW, they don't teach this in any code class either! Two plus decades of doing this has taught me that it is rarely the tools or materials used that create construction defects. But rather the attitudes of the people doing the work that creates the problems.
XPERTFAB
Great words of encouragement, guys. Unfortunately I think I'm in a rut that I will never get out of here. With the comments of my supervisor, the over-riding my decisions in front of the welders and his demeanor while doing it will probably never give me the respect and managing control needed for my position.
An e-mail I sent to my boss yesterday included suggestions on how to work this out. I suggested either have the welders take full responsibility for the visual inspection, which would include them signing the inspection reports, or come up with a new and very clear set of inspection criteria that we all agree on. I explained that in either case this would have to be written into our QC Manual and approved by our AI....which I'm almost certain of what the outcome would be! I told him if things continue without any resolve that I should be allowed to make mark ups on the vessels and if the welders choose not to fix them, we'll let the AI decide. At least that way he'd be aware of everything. I explained how very uncomfortable it made me by discovering defects, not marking or fixing them, and just leaving it to the AI to "catch". I then received a call from him agreeing that we still need to work something out, but that under no circumstances was the AI to be informed of any possible defect on the vessel. He said that he feels his decisions are right, and it has to be this way at least this time, that "we are testing the waters"!!!!
I have full intentions of taking pictures and documenting these rejects, but I have to be sneaky about it. I plan on performing a PT or MT to make the indications really stand out on the picture, but not sure how I will accomplish that yet. The documents will surely be held under lock and key until the right time comes. If I don't see any type of commitment to start conforming to code requirements or not allowed to properly do my job, when I find new employment this documentation WILL be forwarded to my AI.
new tito, when is your next survey due? If things are truly as bad as what you say, it might even be worth mentioning on a much higher level... political suicide of course but if your company does not support what is in it's own QA/QC Program then it's stamp should be revoked.
We've only had the cert for a year. I guess they just now discovered how much QC and inspectionhold up progress. Of course, it's not the repairs and rework that add the time, it's the QC program. If there were no QC, then there would be no repairs right???
What gets me is they keep talking about slowing down production. 2 of the 3 welders still solely use SMAW!!! Talk about holding up production!!!
I've given serious thought about "whistle blowing" so to speak, but no matter what, I can't do anything until something else is lined up.
I hear you. Drop me an e-mail, maybe I can help.
tito,
Don't remember the previous thread on this, but think I asked where you are located. If in the Houston area, give me some type of contact info and I will contact you offline. I am VP of Engineering in my company (and part owner) and we are always looking for quality people, especially ones with integrity.
I build the things that fly over your head....I weld on the things that fly over your head. I am WAY WAY WAY more picky then the inspectors on my job.......My SIG is literal.......Dude I respect you for one reason...you are trying to do the right thing for you personally, for the code you are employed to ENFORCE, and for having to balance the needs of your family.
You are quite literally between a ROCK and a HARD PLACE. Bide your time and look for a different job..don't quit but find somwhere else to go.....This place needs a culture change to do what they should ....Its not your responsibility to make it happen...just to enforce the code. Somone else made a post about places that would be happy to have a QC with a spine......Its true man.....A GOOD company highly seeks peeps who CARE about what they do Especially when it comes to QC. Start looking and better your self...this place is just a stepping stone and experience. You have the attitude and obviously the patience to deserve much better so go find it and let them self destruct by competition.
Good luck +don't give up
Tommy
Tito
I don't think you should "Whistle Blow" outside the company for the problems you have spoken of here. However, if you really feel that something is going to cause the loss of life and limb, or perhaps an explosion, you should be blowing the whistle as far as you can, as soon as you can, and as long as you can, STARTING INTERNALLY. In that case it would be imoral to wait until you have another job lined up.
Joe Kane
Maybe "whistle blow" was a poor choice of words. I wasn't necessarily meaning that'd I go on cnn or something like that. Obviously taking the internal company route is a dead end, or will lead to the "death" of my employment. No, I was simply meaning that the AI should be informed of ALL issues that do not meet code requirements. This is how it should be. The AI's rely on this information, and when not informed, it really pisses them off. And me being told to basically "hide" certain things to see if the AI will find it is just plain wrong.
Do I think this vessel will blow up..well, probably not.
Do I KNOW that it wont blow up....nope!!
Tell those guys its not about whether this vessel will Blow up or not, its about meeting the minimum code requirements period. The "King" is not the Engineer and his job is to produce a code compliant weld, yours is to ensure he does that. The AI will ensure you all did your job. I hate that "Its not gonna blow up" attitude. If the AI catches something undocumented he may assume YOU missed it and probably wont blame the welder or shop foreman, rather the quality control department (You) will take the blame. Hang in there while you can and give thought to all the responses to your post. Your family needs to eat, BUT having a dad/husband come home miserable every day doesnt do them any good either. Stress kills and those guys arent worth it. Good Luck
Tito, you're working yourself into a hole! Your supervisor is obviously of a production mind when it comes to work. If you're the QA manager, then it's your program, and no one, especially not anyone from the production side, should have any say in QA procedures. I can't really say any more than that, because I don't know the particulars of your situation. But if you're working for someone who's idea of good QA is to get it out the door as fast as possible, then it's time to look for a new employer. The welders don't have a leg to stand on. If I reject something, it's for a reason. And if they question my integrity, my qualifications or my knowledge, they're opening the gates of hell. I'm a fair guy, because I can be. I have been in their shoes; however now I'm on the other side of the glass, and while the company I work for isn't exactly doing submarine work, I am harder on these guys than they like. If a contract says that the part is welded to a certain standard, then that's what it will be when it leaves the shop. My advice to you is 1. look for a new job, 2. start being a total hardankle and marking every defect you see, 3. take total ownership of the QMS and convene a management meeting to declare your intention to improve the quality of welds on the line, 4. if you're working for the PM, go to the president or GM and make your case for reporting directly to him (not the PM, that's suicide in the QA world). they might well fire you, but as others before me pointed out, it's a lawsuit that any lawyer would be all over. You have written work instructions that cover your responsibilities? If not, you need to find them and make sure you ask your boss for a complete description of your duties. Go for the kill. Right now, the way I see it they're paying you to be an inspector, but you had all those responsibilities taken from you...so what are they paying you for? Take over or get out.
I have followed these 2 threads with great interest. Did not comment because I had little to add that was not already being said. I have been where NT is and it is a hard line to stand on sometimes. But stand you must.
I have not done any ASME work since early 90's and then it was simply MT/PT/RT. Just some thoughts. Correct me if I am wrong, but is there not a "Hartford Boiler" inspector involved somewhere in the loop on pressure vessels? Is this someone you can call into "referee"? If not, how about bringing in a independent inspector well versed in the type of work you do? Does anyone provide training in the type of ASME inspections you perform? Then again, if the management is not willing to seek the correct answers from an outside source to either verify their position or the inspector's position, you may have your answer. They should be willing to send a high ranking production rep and the inspector to a training session somewhere so they may learn together and solidify the team. Seems like that would be in the best interest of the company's bottom line.
NT, hang in there and stand firm where you must! Once you start to let your integrity slide, it becomes a very slippery slope and becomes very difficult to stop.
The Hartford Boiler inspector you speak of would be the Authirized Inspector (AI), Hartford Boiler is simply one of many insurance companies that perform AI services. We use another company. In reality, yes, I should be able to call in the AI to referee, and even sugeested it, but read my previous post regarding my boss saying not to mention anything to my AI. I would welcome a "real", experienced inspector to come and either verify my rejects, or educate me as to what I'm really seeing. Problem is, I would be afraid that possibly some jacka$$ would come in here and not know what he was talking about....and then get offered my job!!! I'm fighting a battle with 2 welders that have welded for a very long time, that have never had any type inspection training or had inspections on their work. I'm also battling a corporate QC and my manager, neither of which have had any weld inspection experience. What gets me is that no one is saying I'm wrong, just that I'm being too picky. I never have a problem admitting I'm wrong, IF I actually am wrong, but nobody has or can show me that the small lack of fusion I called, is, in fact something else.
ARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
If, God forbid, some catastrophe should occur and be traced to a failed weld, all those people who are now pressuring you to sign off on the work will be standing outside your office pointing in at you and chanting "he signed off on it". Stand firm and good luck.
Bill
I empathize with you on this one brother. So, lets take a look at the broader picture. There are ways, i've found, to get what you want and still let the the "king" feel like his crap doesn't stink. The difference will be in your approach to the subject. A couple of well placed "please and thank yous" can, in fact, go a long way in reaching the greater good. Old school calls it "Irish Diploymacy", or, "the art of telling someone to go to hell, and make them look forward to the trip!" I've found that this approach does in fact work with even the most hard core ironhead out there. Just keep the issue local (you and him) and never make it personal. I'm not saying don't bust it out, just try using a little honey instead of vinegar.
Those are my little pearls of wisdom for the year. Try it and see what happens, either it'll work or it won't.
I haven't read the entire thread but I have had some inspection "experiences" this week that have got me thinking that a job 2 miles from the house may not be me. Continue to do the right thing!
Gerald
tito, repeating my post from several days ago.
Don't remember the previous thread on this, but think I asked where you are located. If in the Houston area, give me some type of contact info and I will contact you offline. I am VP of Engineering in my company (and part owner) and we are always looking for quality people, especially ones with integrity.
I sent you a PM with all of my info. Check your messages.
Well, I spoke to my AI and briefly gave him a rundown of the problems I'm having. I could not tell him everything, but basically told him to pay a little more attention to visually detected defects. We had a good long talk about what we could do and what he could do to get involved and get things corrected. I told him to let me try to figure out something first, and if I fail to get proper support that he could come in a inspect all he wanted. I did ask him to try to be inconspicuous about it, so it wouldn't seem that I informed him of anything.
I'm stuck right now. I've sent out a few resumes to local companies but none are currently hiring, and short of moving, I must try to find a solution while I'm still here. I didn't want to create another thread on this just yet, so I'm sure a few that have already posted may not come back to revisit the topic, but I'd thought I'd at least give an update.
Stay tuned for progress!!!
I am still seeking alternative employment myself, if I see anything down your way (and there is plenty) I'll shoot ya an e-mail! Hang in there! ;-)
this may or may not help but the question is "what do you want, to be happy or right? because they are often mutually exclusive especially within the confines of what you described as you situation.
there will be some piece of information that will come along that will be the watershed moment for the whole thing, just hang in there till it comes.
i empathize with the ' i gotta feed the family thing' as i am in that situation now.
i have decided all bets are off and am doing everything that they do not want, i am letting in the daylight on their dirty little secrets and they are very angry. but i am acting within my rights as set out by the bodies with auspice over our industry. i am right and even though i will suffer for it, currently i am also happy, because i decided not to take their bullshit any more.
trying to be a good slave got me nowhere so i am going to be a good master. relieved a lot of anxiety.
all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.
fight the good fight
darren
