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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / underbead cracks.....
- - By JA (**) Date 06-22-2007 07:00
why is it that underbead cracks occur more so in fillet welds than groove welds.....?
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 06-22-2007 07:19
Hello JA, I'm going to take a stab at that one, just a stab mind you. With the fillet weld, unless there is a preset gap, you have a restriction to the shrinkage that can occur after the weld has been done, thus a greater possibility of an underbead crack, or possibily a centerline crack. You also don't generally have 100% fusion to the root of the weld, in a lot of cases this can set up a crevice or type of undercut at the root that can promote cracking. In most instances when a groove weld is being done there is not nearly as much restriction when shrinkage occurs(on an open root groove weld the root gap can close up or shrink slightly without causing excessive stresses), thus there is less likelihood that you will experience cracking, underbead or otherwise. Just a stab mind you and likely much better educated members of the forum will give you a better explanation. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 06-22-2007 09:17
I agree with allen on that....there is a lot more potential for stress/draw in a fillet then a groove pass. The next part is just personal belief of mechanics....if that fillet includes a good portion of the throat (pen of throat) this will reduce the likely hood of draw induced stress.  This includes cracking in the parent material as well as the weld itself.   I am just a welder and thats my opinion.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 06-22-2007 17:07
Also, with groove welds the shrinkage tensile stresses are predominantly longitudinal, where as with fillets they're through thickness.
Parent - By Fredspoppy (**) Date 06-24-2007 03:18
In general, there are two cracking mechanisms related to underbead cracking, (1) hydrogen induced cracking and (2) lamellar tearing.  Cracking associated with butt welding of components in the same orientation (such as butt welding of two plate sections or pipe welding) normally would not see the lamellar tearing phenomonem as it is normally associated with poor through thickness, material properties of steel plates.

Hydrogen induced cracking requires (1) hydrogen, (2) stress and (3) a suseptible microstructure.  Without any one of the 3, HIC cannot occur.  HIC is normally seen in the HAZ of high strength materials, but can also contribute to cracking in the base metal area related to lamellar tearing.  Lamellar tearing is normally seen in Tee weld applications, and can result from partial pen, full pen and fillet welds.  This cracking requires (1) suseptible microstructure/poor through thickness properties, (2) stress and (3) sufficient restraint.  Hydrogen can also contribute to lamellar tearing.  Lamellar tearing really can't happen in thin materials as distortion/yielding would happen before cracking.  This is normally seen in thicker section base plates, with a fairly heavy weld connecting a perpendicular member.

The attached photo shows classic lamellar tearing and was seen in the TWI article, with the following link:

Hope this helps.
Parent - By GRoberts (***) Date 06-24-2007 17:40
Also, fillet welds will tend to cool off quicker than groove welds since the heat can be transfered out of the weld into the base metal in three directions instead of two for butt welds.  Of course the faster cooling can contribute to hydrogen cracking.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / underbead cracks.....

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