Hello, the parameters which it appears you are referring to aren't specifically addressed as to what the dimensions have to be by the API. The root opening and root face dimensions are to be addressed in the WPS whatever they might be. As far as what you "should" be using really depends on you - electrode angle, speed, amps, fit-up. As far as the concavity goes here is what is listed in the API, "9.3.5 Internal Concavity: Internal concavity (IC) is defined in 1.2.2.13 and is shown schematically in Fig. 17. Any length of internal concavity is acceptable, provided the density of the radiographic image of the internal concavity does not exceed that of the thinnest adjacent base metal. For areas that exceed the density of the thinnest adjacent base metal, the criteria for burn through is applicable." So basically as long as your cap height offsets the depth of the concavity - it's a go. If you are having a hard time getting a convex surface my advise is that you are running a longer than needed arc length. Bury the electrode right in there, there will be pressure from the electrode against the root surfaces. Keep a small key hole, and go. To address the qualification issue, this info is in section 6. This would be considered a single qualification test. The groups for quals are listed here and there are three for Diameters of pipe and for Wall Thickness. Groups are as follows: 1: O.D. less than 2.375, 2: O.D. from 2.375 through 12.750, 3: O.D. Greater than 12.750. And wall thickness, 1. Nominal wt less than .188, 2. Nominal wt from .188 to .750, 3. Nominal wt greater than .750. You didn't mention whether this was a branch connection, sleeve, 6G, 5G or 2G weld. This will make a big difference pertaining to joint design and position quals. Hope this helps.
Hello and thanks,
I am not working on any particular qualification; I am trying to build my list of crudentials in order to get my foot in the door of the pipe welding industry. Currently I am practicing on 2" SCH 80 6G uphill 6010 root 7018 fill and a 6" SCH 40 5G 6010 downhill. Honestly, I know nothing about the API 1104 quals so any information is a big help. Thanks again. Please correct me if I am wrong, in my mind these two qualifications will demonstrate to a potential employer that I have the necissary skills to be employed in the industry. I feel like, if I can pass these two tests then I am not far from being able to pass other tests (larger diameter, wall thickness, etc.). Of course I want to move on to GTAW root pass and other quals but this is where I have chosen to start. I have my own rig and my goal is to be a well rounded, competent welder, able to provide whatever welding service needed.
What is the exact name of the publication you are referring to? These publications are very expensive and I would hate to buy the wrong book.
I appreciate your (and the others) taking the time to help. I think this is an invaluable resource for those of us who are either trying to learn or stuck in a rut.
API = American Petroleum Institute
API 1104 Standard for "Welding of Pipelines and Related Facilities" goes for around $250 - $280. As for these tests demonstrating your ability for hire, not completely sure. Unfortunately, I deal strictly with union welders (not by choice but how the contracts are written). From my end I could not test you but it may help to get your foot in the door of a union and cut down on some apprentice time. If you find a non-union employer most likely he could care less if you performed these welds for him if it took all day. A couple of hours for each at most. Time is key in pipe welding. Very competative. As far as union vs. non-union, depends on which side of the fence you are on. A young fairly green pipe welder should choose union more often than not considering rig pay, travel pay, experiences to be had. A seasoned welder with conections could do fine without union backing. From a management standpoint you have to pay for some ridiculous stuff to union members who now how to profit. But it is what it is. If I were you, from what you've posted, I'd look into union. Good luck
are you saying that the union standards are not as high as a pipeline co's please dont take this as me being rude just asking a question for i too do not know the ropes of pipelining but know i can do it 1 more question if you dont mind why do pipelines use the 5p rod over the low high rod i have always been told 5p is very brittle seems to me the brittle weld would break going into the ditch i'm jus oil filed trash and have pipe expierence in that field my lead welder isnt real picky as long as it looks good and dont leak its good to go
<Heavy Sigh>
No 5P is no more brittle than low hydrogen. It is not the electrode it is the metalurgical makeup of the carrier steel. If you weld with 7018 improperly, it can be brittle. In fitness for service, most X-country pipelines are 0.375 (standard Wall)thick or less. Downhill is faster. On a X-country you have one welder put in the bead, another right behind him puts in the hot pass. This is the front end. There may or may not be a fill crew behind them to add a hot fill after the hot pass. But behind the front end is the firing line. These guys put in the final fill and cap. In most cases the firing line welders take 2 or 3 welds per set up. With 10 welders on the firing line moving 3 sets with 40 foot joints that is 1200 feet per move. 120 joints per day and you have moved almost a mile. Behind the firing line is X ray It is an assembly line. Only the tie in welders get to make a complete weld. Some guys specialize. I know welders who do nothing but beads. At the end of the line they will go to another job before they go on the firing line or tie-ins. Low hydrogen welding is used in plants. One reason plants require LH is to minimize the chance of using cellulose rods on pipe requiring LH. I know welders who pull LH out and cap out and they will tell you it is a stronger rod than 5P. Yea, a low hydrogen rod that has rolled around a welding bed for two weeks without heat is stronger than 5P and is less brittle. No frigginn way!
Fitness for purpose. Pipeline people use what works for their industry and plant people use what works for them.
BABRT's
Yea, a low hydrogen rod that has rolled around a welding bed for two weeks without heat is stronger than 5P and is less brittle. No frigginn way!
Isn't 5P E6010 an isn't the low-hy in discussion E7018, so one would be inclined to believe that 70 k psi is stronger than 60 k psi. Not addressing which is more brittle or not, thinking of strength only. We all know both electrodes are capable of producing x-ray quality with the right weldor wielding it.
Hello Gentlemen!
We also know that there some "subtle" differences in the RT acceptance criteria between API 1104, and let's say ASME Section IX - B31.1 or B31.3 :) :) :) I'm not going mention AWS D1.1 or 1.6 or even ASME Section III which is a different universe all together!!!
Anyone care to guess which is more forgiving???
Respectfully,
Henry
i don't have a copy, but i thought 1104 was the most forgiving
CORRECTAMUNDO!!!
Give that man a Gold star!!! :)
Respectfully,
Henry
Most forgiving for what. 1104 is the standard for pipelines. It is tough for its purpose. B31.3 is the same for pressure and process piping. Same for D1.1 Structural and 31.1 for Power Piping. These standards are what the industry has found over time works for their industry. I used to think pipeline welders were the absolutely best welders in the world. Then I met a man who could run a 1/4 inch diameter low hydrogen and do code quality welds. Welders who can weld to a standard day in and day out are welders. Not one is any better in another process than another. Give me a nuclear welder who runs tig all day and make him do a pipelin test and you will think the welder is just starting out. Again FITNESS FOR SERVICE!!!
BABRT's
Read the question again, then stick to the answer for the question - Period!!!
Respectfully,
Henry
I'm not going to even try to guess cause i dont know what all them codes mean or even where to look them up. I've never delt with any kind of inspectors just oilfield work and the co's i work for dont really care as long as it looks good and dont leak al though i am intrested in learning what they are and mean for future refrence lets face it the boom wont last forever
Subtle is not the word I'd use for that.
Hi Gerald!
You know, I was just attempting to be diplomatic and I guess it backfired on me - Go figure Huh??? ;) :) :)
Respectfully,
Henry
No offense Henry, but analogizing political correctness and diplomacy with you, is like comparing a bass boat with a boomer. :)
Respectfully,
Gerald
True Dat ther Gerald! ;) ;) ;)
Still I try me best which is all I can do!!! :) However, there are times that I must confess to being overwhelmed by this powerful desire of acting in a very mischievous manner towards others ,and it sometimes takes all that I have in order to reign myself in!!! :(
Respectfully,
Henry
An improperly cared for 7018 will not produce quality welds. Xray or other wise. Improperly caring for electrodes causes many problem. Would brittleness be one? Maybe in the right situation. As for the ductility of the welding rod, I have torn apart thousands of tensile coupons. A 5P on X42 will enlongate 20 - 25% before yielding. And the break is in the parent metal, not the weld. You want to see something make a tinsel on X80. Elongation of less than 10% and when it yields, the iron horse jumps. A pipeline will take 200-300 feet sections of pipe laying in and will curve. Even 42 inch. Its call break-over. Tie-ins learn this term real quick. I have seen many miles of pipe laid in and NEVER seen a break or crack in a weld! But then I am not OFT,
just BABRT's
i know i'm asking alot of questions and prolly gettin on ur nerves and i'm sorry for that but i just dont know the 1104 process is it all 5p downhill and what is a 5g test on 12'' pipe thanks so much for your help i'm tired of the oil field and want to get into pipelining
Cross county pipelining will be downhill. 5P is just one rid used in pipelining and most now use 5P+. A 5G is a bellhole weld. Axis of the pipe is less than 45 degrees. Or two pieces of pipe where the weld is run downhill.
I never understood why people call it x-ray certified. Because it passes "radiography" doesn't mean the weld is good, it just means there are no discontinuities found. The weld could be brittle as hell, and still pass radiography. No NDE makes any weld good. It was a quality weld or not before it ever meet RT, UT or any other NDE. NDE only proves the presence of or lack of discontinuities.
Regards,
Gerald
Excellent perspective, and one that concurr with wholeheartedly Gerald!!! :) :) :)
Respectfully,
Henry
what does man have to do to be a rig welder in the union
lol
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