i can accept that , and yes , your absolutely right , but lets get back to Elliott's question ,and not try to confuse him,,,,,, he was wondering if the test plate was starting to warp because he wasnt spending enough idle time between passes.........let me rephrase my first answer ,,,,Elliott , don't worry about it , that's going to happen , every time,,,,,,,,no matter how much time you spend between passes , the whole thing is only 6" wide with a big 1" V grove down the middle,,,,,unrestrained.....
As far as "how many" passes its going to take.....? well , it takes a certain amount of filler metal to fill the joint....lets just say 20 passes , the only way it can be done in more or less is if the rod diameter is increased or decreased providing your not dumping the rod lose half way through , and your buddy isn't...once again , it takes as many as it's going to take,,,,,period........don't worry about , So once again , just "WELD IT UP" Elliott.......
hay , but what do i know , I'm just a junky old ironworker.........
Hello JA, I've followed this thread with a bit of interest as I too have an opinion and it isn't likely to be agreed with by all of those here. I do unlimited 1" plate tests that are administrated by the state of Washington under their WABO system which pretty much follows the AWS D1.1. Oddly enough WABO refused to provide the various testing agencies with a WPS to follow when administering the 1" unlimited test or any of their other tests. Thus they have left the specifics of the testing up to the discression of the individuals administering the tests. When I give the 1" unlimited test I specify stringers exclusively on the overhead plate and on the vertical plate I specify either complete use of stringers or after the initial root pass the next two passes can be done with the use of weaves so long as they don't exceed the 3X diameter of filler rod, this test is done using 1/8" electrodes. From that point on I expect the plate to be completed with stringers, including the cap or cover pass. I don't allow the use of a grinder for any repair of the test plates or any cleaning other than that done with a tack hammer, brush, or pick. The total number of stringers or passes is irrelevant as far as I am concerned as the individuals comfort zone on bead size can alter the total number of passes greatly. I don't specify restraints while welding the plates so they will exhibit varying degrees of warpage depending on a great number of variables(preheat, bead sizes, interpass temperatures, amperages used, rod diameter, time between passes, etc.) I generally "suggest" welding both the vertical and overhead plates at the same time and alternating from one plate to the other after carefully removing the slag, brushing the weld, raking the edges of the beads, and looking at the joint geometry after applying each pass to determine the optimum placement and approach for applying the additional beads. This approach will not generally result in overheating the plates and causing any detrimental effects on them.
I explain my not allowing grinders by stating that I expect the welders that are qualifying to be able to complete test welds in ideal conditions such as a testing environment without the use of a grinder. I further explain my specification of stringers on test plates to show true welding capabilities of test candidates, as stringers generally require a higher level of welding proficiency. One additional explanation that I include is to say that in the times that we live in there are many instances where welding that is done is no longer being exclusively limited to A-36 grade steels and that the alloyed steels are much more sensitive to heat inputs, so stringers are the better way to go. I also explain to them that when welds are done on some of the alloyed materials, they can be X-rayed, UT'd, and possibly show clean of inclusions or defects, yet, if they are destructively tested they may very well fracture and fail due to the destructive issues of overheating. Once they leave my facility with a qualification I am confident that whether they make welds using stringers or weaves they will be capable and whether they weld one way or the other, that determination can be dictated by their employer or the applicable codes that their work will require of them. That's my $.02 for now. Fire away folks. Regards, Allan
Maybe I have been out of structural work too long but....are the not some unlimited tests like this in place regarding GMAW? Just mentioning it because Elliot never mentioned the process....I assume it is standard lo-hy unlimited test as well.
JA I like your straightforward answers...and I agree as far as the original question thats all he needs to worry about. Every single test I ever taken I asked the prospective inspector what he expected. The only time a "WPS" was ever put in front of me was for ASME work and at my current job in aerospace. In both occasions I still asked the guy what he wanted and I gave him exactly that. Every guy who issued me a card had no problem telling me the results they expected and how they expected me to go about it...some offered "fatherly" advice some did not.
Just cleaning each pass IMHO gives you plenty of time in between passes on "this" test. The last time I took this one I was instructed: clean however you want as long as its with a chip hammer or brush nothing else, Set your own gap, all stringers and you may put on a weave cap if you think you can once above surface (figure that one out LOL) thats what I did. Too me as long as you listen to your inspector and give him what he wants you will be fine....weld it up.
Good post Allen thats what makes a good inspector/instructor is somone who knows those variables and can explain the consequences. It definitely takes more thought and attention to run all stringers and your are spot on with reasons why. Funny thing is I have never been allowed the use of a grinder on ANY test, except for fitting...but I understand its commonplace on starts and stops in a lot of cases...I never got that luxery. Guess I have not earned enough cards. I honestly don't know what there is to "fire away" at...but I know what you mean.
my $.02
Tommy
p.s. yea JA "Aircraft Fusion Welder" I need to change that ... I just tig airplane parts ...thats just what it says on my card. I am just a bit proud of that one cause it was a toughy...my first heavy duty tig cert.
i think all this input on this was in its proper place,,,, and its much deeper than just running a bead , that's for sure,,,,,,,i myself appreciate it all.........
as far as Tommy and his "TIG" cert,,,,,,well , i couldn't pass that test if my life depended on it , my hats off to you buddy............JA.
Hello Allan,
i did a search for unlimited thickness tests. I was in error when i told you that the test I have coming up for Komatsu, was going to be a square groove. I received a packet of info from them on friday, explaining the tests. I will be testing on a 1" (25mm) plate that is going to be beveled. I have never done an unlimited thickness test as yet. Especially in GMAW I did do a pretty large Fillet weld test out in SMAW, I'm sure You remember that topic.
After I lay in a really good root, How important is the interpass bead placement using GMAW? I ask because I'll be using Lincoln L56 .052 wire (which I've never used that Dia. wire.), and i haven't yet had to produce a groove weld that required more than 3 passes. Should keep laying my beads in a manner that causes the previous bead to be covered by 1/2 it's width? Any suggestions would be very welcome.
Respectfully, Jeffrey
Clean every pass really well...I have had welders fail the bends due to underestimating what they could burn out / float out with the next pass. Those little silicon islands that look like dark glass is what will give you trouble.
John,
Thank You for the reply. I will brush the heck out of those silicon deposits after each pass. I will also watch my bead placement so as not to trap myself in a situation of having incomplete fusion or voids between beads. Anymore suggetions on the 1G unlimited thickness test would be greatly appretiated. For instance, gun articulation, angle and should I push or pull for this one?
Respectfully, Jeffrey Grady
elliot,
The WPS states a 50 degree F interpass temperature??? Now that I find odd :) :) :) I could understand minimum starting preheat temp but, 50 degrees F as the interpass temp??? You'll be on that test piece for quite some time don't you think???
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