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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Welder Qualification Form
- - By drifter57 (**) Date 07-17-2007 18:52
Question--- Auditing a vendor and came across a Xray qual form on a operator that was not signed by testing agency. Is this a valid form? All others are signed but this one. Everything else is filled out, but not signed. It has test # so a person can call and get a signed copy But question is is it REQUIRED to be signed.
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-17-2007 19:09
As far as I know for ASME and AWS D1.1 there is NO requirement for an RT contractor to sign the form. If the form has the required signature line, it would be hard to NOT require a signature. I would look closely at the quality system of the company.

Gerald
Parent - - By new tito (***) Date 07-17-2007 22:36
Could have been an honest mistake.  I would call and iquire about it.

On the other hand, if not signed, how do you know the person qualifying the operator is qualified himself?  The only way I can see to prove it is to have a signature, or at least a name on the cert of the person that did the qualification, that can be traced to the qualifier's qualifications....whew!!!
Parent - - By drifter57 (**) Date 07-18-2007 11:44
Thanks for your replys Gerald and Tito, I agree it should be done and obviosly was just a thing that got missed because all others are done. (I have done the same thing myself!!!). My main question is though if there is any place in D1.1 that states it is required, I can find nothing. I will have them contact the testing facility and get a signed copy just because I require it not neccisarily because code requires it. Does anybody know if and where it is stated in D.1 that it would be a unacceptable document???
Parent - - By new tito (***) Date 07-18-2007 13:54
I'm not familioar with d1.1 anymore, as it has been quite a while since I used that code.  However, you may need to "investigate" and your requirement to have the testing agency sign thier forms may be uncovered.  Example - If D1.1 states that NDT personell shall be qualified in accordance with SNT-TC-1A, and/or the agency's QC manual states in their written practice that level II's will be certified and qualified by a level III or whoever, the only way to prove that is to have the persons name that is doing the qualification on the cert.  See what I'm getting at?  It may not be written in black and white and bold print, but I'm sure there are plenty of statements that would lead you to believe, or even actually end up requiring the cert to be signed by the certifier, through different cross references and such.
Parent - - By new tito (***) Date 07-18-2007 14:02
I'm sorry, I just realized that you seem to be referring to a welder's qualification..the RT thing threw me off!!!
Parent - - By rickc (**) Date 07-18-2007 17:37 Edited 07-18-2007 17:44
No, there's no requirement in D1.1:2006 for it be signed. Informative Annex N starting on Page 337 does mention a signature but this section is NOT considered part of AWS D1.1 (see pages xii, 129, 275 and 337). However, if you choose to use Annex N as your basis anyway then you may notice that they don't actually sign 'em either - they simply type in name of the company or person taking responsibility in the "signature" area.

I'm all for listing specifically who recorded this information and certifies it as accurate but, if nothing else, it's a digital age and type written in names mirror the AWS examples, are more practical, and are legally enforcible (if it ever comes to that).

However, I can certainly see an inspector getting up-tight if there's a place for a signature on your form and all the other ones are signed. As I said, it's not required by the code but by having a signature line there then it implies that it's required by you or company policy. I'd try the old, "There is no requirement in AWS or company policy that it have a signature - we are just using a generic form. Besides, all the information contained is fully traceable."  ...or something like that. Also, if your policy doesn't require a signature then I'd suggesting rev'ing your form as soon as conveniently possible.
Parent - - By Bill M (***) Date 07-18-2007 19:55
I agree with everyone above-
Here is what happens sometimes when I audit weldment vendors:  I ask for the welder qualification - certification records.  They hand me a bunch of radiographic report reader sheets.  I then ask for the welder qualification records.  They look at me funny and say they just gave them to me. 

The sample form in D1.1 for Welder qualifcation records states at the bottom, "We the undersigned certify that...".  That to me indicates that AWS strongly suggests that the welder qualification document requires a certification signature --since it is the employer that performs the welder qualification and a responsible authorized individual certifies the report as being correct by signing the document.  I advise the vendor that the testing lab does not certify your welders, you do and that the testing lab just performs the required testing on the welders coupon.  Personally, if the reader sheet did not have a signature of the RT technician I would not consider that to be a big issue unless the testing labs' written NDT procedures require the signature, then it should of course have the signature.  

Our "Document Control" section of our QA program requires us to save our x-ray reports for welder qual.  Just to play devils advocate...Aside from any internal requirements, does one actually have to save the x-ray reader sheets?  You do not have to save bend test coupons for welder qualification, just certify that the tests were performed by signing the qualification record.
Parent - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 07-19-2007 02:07
They have always sign our WQR and said any question ask tell them to call.
Parent - By drifter57 (**) Date 07-19-2007 12:04
Thanks to everyone for your replies. I agree. This is just another example of why this forum is so great. The way people will respond so fast is just unbeleivable.  Again-- THANKS.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Welder Qualification Form

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