3G & 4G weld qualification

Date 07-28-2007 14:34

bigskyguy, I think you need to read 4.2.4 , figure 4.1 showes you were the axis and rotation starts and stops for a certain position of weld,not for testing . In 4.2.4 it tells you which figure for which position and type.Figure 4.4 shows you for groove on pipe your axis is +/_ 15 degrees. I hope this helps. ( this is out of AWS D1.1 2006 )

By bigskyguy Date 07-28-2007 18:02 Edited 07-30-2007 12:49

I know about the 15 + or - on tube and pipe, I read over 4.2.4 with the fabricator. No where in the code does it put anlge restictions on test PLATE, No where in the code does it say that figures 4.1 and 4.2 are not for testing anlges. His argument to me was they would not have put these figures in section 4 if it did not apply to this section, qualification of the welder. According to figures 4.1 & 4.2 80 degrees of inclination is covered for both 3 & 4 positions. I just need to show this guy where it is in writting where plate certifications have angle restritions and that figures 4.1 and 4.2 do not apply to testing, and if they don't why are they in the qualification section? Next to the the pictures in figures in figures 4.3 the plates have the posion written next to them. D1.1 would have been better never to write anything, and just go off the picture. The fabrictor in question interpets "plates vertical; axis of weld horizontal" reason to referance figures 4.1 and 4.2. I have always given two seperate tests for all position groove, if the contrator in question, applys that a 80 degree test weld covers you for both positions in his company SOP, can I test his welders to this. After all it is how they interpet the code and, if I don't test his work he just going to find someone who will.
what is the right thing to do?? Is this somethig the commitee at AWS should clarify or is this a standard deal??

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 07-30-2007 17:02

In the figure you referenced, the 3G is measured 10 deg. off the vertical plane, while the 4G is measured 10 deg off the horizontal plane. Both planes are labeled at 90 deg. That's why it looks like both are at 80 deg., but in reality they are pretty far apart.

By bigskyguy Date 07-30-2007 19:22

I'm a little confused, sorry. But axis limit C on the drawing looks like 0 to 80 degrees off of the horizontal. Axis limit E looks like 80 to 90 degrees off of the vertical. Axis limit E is the vertical position (on the chart) and axis limit C is the overhead position (on the chart). If I'm reading this wrong let me know, thanks

By strat

Date 07-31-2007 02:38

bigskyguy,it is confusion it took me a while to get a grasp on it , but this is my interpretation. 4.2.4 reads that all welds shall be (classified) as (F),(H),(V),(OH). On a WPS it states position of groove or fillet,figure 4.1 gives you the positions for each position,say the wps states that the position it will allow you to weld in is 2G,or the wlder is only qualified in 2G,if the axis of the weldement is 0 to 15 degrees and the weld was between 210 to 280 and 80 to 150 degrees of the rotation of the face you are within the 2G range,but if you were to weld 0 to 80 or 360 to 280 degrees with the weldement in the same plane then you would be welding over head. You are correct on axis limit C, 0 to 80 is a large range for overhead , as long as you weld 0 to 80 and 280 to 360 degrees of the face then you are welding in the 4G position. Look at the vertical D it also has a large range , if the axis is 15 to 80 degrees and the weld is 80 to 260 degreesof the face it is a vertical weld ,if you go past 15 degrees on the axis and the weld is 150 to 210 of the face then its a flat weld. Then 4.2.4 says test ass. positions are shown in 4.3 , 4.4 , 4.5 , 4.6. ASME does give you an axis limit as for D1.1 the only on i know of is for pipe or tubing. When i give a plate groove test if its vertical then the plate is in the vertical position , if horizontal then the plate is in the horizontal position. I dont know if this helps , but i hope so