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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / paid time off when hurt?
- - By Eric Carroll (**) Date 08-10-2007 03:01
I hired a guy a few weeks ago to help with a large gouging job.We are removing some 5x5x5/8 angle from some pontoons,anyway he let a 20 foot piece land on his foot,he worked the rest of the day and about a hour the next morning.He called me and said "I need to get this toe checked out"he also said "no need to get workmans comp involved,I'll just go to a walk in and get the nail removed".Long story short I paid for the walk-in and his prescriptions.He couldnt work for almost two weeks.should I pay for him the time off?I have never been in this position before(either side)and not to sure what to do.Should have just done workmans comp.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 08-10-2007 04:09
Well if the guys alright, the two weeks off you pay him will be far better than getting a lost time against your company.

My two cents worth
Gerald
Parent - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 08-10-2007 14:04
I agree with Gerald, the 2 weeks off will be much less than the Comp claim, and the premium increase that always follows in the coming months from a lost time recordable accident.  Consider it an investment in your future, not money paid out with no return.  Maybe since he's a newbie, you can put conditions on his payment like he needs to stay with you for a year or forfeit the pay.  At least that way you get some return on your investment.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 08-10-2007 16:30
I think you're playing with fire.  Be extra careful in the powder magazine.
Parent - - By fbrieden (***) Date 08-10-2007 16:40
Chet,

I agree with you 150%! I'm sure the clinic that treated the injury has all the information about when, where, and whom. There's nothing to prevent this guy returning with a lawyer at a later date.
Parent - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 08-10-2007 17:49
I agree with you guys too, but he does have a legal standing that the guy did continue to work, and even worked some of the next day as well.  Who knows, maybe he went home that night and stubbed his toe on the bed post and agrivated the injury.  If you leave and return a day or two later with an injury, and then decide it's bad enough to get looked at, it creates a grey area that the injury may have been outside the working enviroment.
Parent - - By webbcity (***) Date 08-10-2007 19:00
eric , sounds like you need to review your safety plan . i don't know your particulars but many young people don't know what to do in case of an accident . you should check with your insurance carrier don't under report and don't over report . you should invest in a pair of steel toe boots for him it could have prevented the accident , he may not have relized that correct ppe may have prevented that . as others have said the wages you pay may be a good investment . i think he should have returned to work as soon a possible on light duty to stay on the project or others . how you work with your people shows other workers  that they will not be discarded after an accident but can continue in the work force . even if you are done with this project you will be doing others and may need his or others help again . good luck . willie
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 08-11-2007 00:46
CALL YOUR LIABILITY INSURANCE COMPANY NOW!!!! LET THEM KNOW THERE MAY BE A CLAIM IN THE FUTURE. LET YOUR INSURANCE AGENT KNOW WHAT HAS HAPPENED. LET YOUR LAWYER KNOW WHAT HAS HAPPENED.
Document what has happened as far as the accident. Regardless of the new an improved idiot's YOU have to protect your assets. If this worker gets an infection, sick, or his next kid has an issue, a lawyer will skin you.
Parent - - By boiler tube (*) Date 08-13-2007 00:11
Hi Eric
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, document an injury or accident that an employee has, even if medical services or an insurance claim is not needed. A few
years ago I had a crew of welders working about 4 weeks in a mall at night from 10 pm until 7 am renforcing bar joist and some beams to handle the weight of new cooling towers that would set on the roof. We had to do all the work off of extension ladders that were set up thru the ceiling grid and the floors were all covered with welding blankets because they were carpeted. I was on site moving some of the blankets when one of the welders working on the ladder next to where I was standing was trying to reach one of the weld joints ( over reaching ) thats when the ladder kick out and I grab it and held it up untill the other guys came over to help me, and he came down the ladder and was a little shaken up. The welder had his hood down when this all hapened and really scared the crap out of him. Long story short, He never fell, or injured himself, finished his shift, and was back at it the next night. He quit about two months after that. So a year goes by and Im served papers that Im being sued for workmens comp for a back injury that he said happened when he fell from that ladder at the mall job. My insurance company and their lawyers were the best and did a very good job investigating everything that had happened. If that man had hurt himself I would have taken him to the hospital and made sure all the workmans comp accident reports wre filled out. I did document the ladder incident for my own records and my foreman recorded it on his daily job report which was a big help!  BUT what put the icing on the cake was that the mall security cameras caught the whole thing on tape and as soon as the lawyers for the ex-employee found out about the tape they droped thier suit.
Best advice is to do things buy the book and protect youself.
Ray.
 
Parent - - By Eric Carroll (**) Date 08-14-2007 03:00
I have paid him for his time out and hope to make(the money) it back soon.Should I draw up some paper work that details what happend and how it was handled?Is there a way to keep this from hurting me later on?
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 11-15-2008 07:26
Its quite possible paying him has given him more of an edge if something should come of this, now he can say you threatened him with his job if he reported it, All I can say is you better hope nothing comes of this in the future!
could it also be possible he didn't want to report it on the account he could'nt pass a drug test?
I may sound pessimistic but The best thing you could have done was made him go to the doc and made him submit to a drug test. document everything.

where I work, if you have a near miss you are subject to a drug test, you would not believe how many people will deny any drug use even after positive results. we get excuses like My friend smoked pot in the same room but I didn't smoke any, and someone must have slipped something in my drink. My companies policy is if you say you have a problem before giving a test, your made to go through counseling and do 3 more tests in a year. Still They deny using and still they come up dirty. there is a zero tolerance for a dirty UA.

Good luck on this one!!!
Parent - By uphill (***) Date 11-16-2008 00:10
Eric,
Speaking as someone who was paid by an old boss for being off for 8 weeks for a non work related shoulder surgery I would like to thank you for helping the man out.  I have been off a time or two for injury at work but untill I lost the last 3/4 inch of my index finger have never been on WorkComp. Work comp is not always in a mans best interest. They rounded off the bone, patched the nail bed. Later I get a notice in the mail that I am 3% permanently disabled and get a check for $1700 . I had no time off as I returned to work three days later on Monday. I come to find out comp does not pay for cosmetic surgery to make the finger original even though it would have been close to the same price as they sent me, go figure.
Workers comp is strict about the timeline of first report of injury notification. I dont know the man in question but if you like him and think you did the pay on good faith keep in mind you more than likely saved twice that on the comp premium and he probably got twice the money he would have on comp. Keeping a paper trail of the incedent is always a great idea & get the man to sign .
Best of luck
Dave
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 11-16-2008 00:45
Wow what a mess this could turn out to be. I don't know what state you are in but my carrier would call what you, and he did, insurance fraud.
You've got several problems. The first thing you should do in my opinion, is make it very clear to employees that ALL injuries have to be reported IMMEDIATLY. That time span works bad for your employee. Unless he has witness', he has no way to prove this was a workplace injury. Wherever he was treated, they DID ask him if it was a workplace injury so he likely lied to them. That makes him look bad, but you as well.
But the fact that you went along, and worse yet paid him to sit at home works bad for you. That looks to the workmans comp carrier as tho you were trying to keep a workplace injury off your policy, just one claim can really make your premiums go crazy the following year.
If he used any normal health insurance (non work comp) to cover the health care, that ins co has a beef as they aren't liable for work related injuries.
I agree that an employee who wants to cheat the work comp carrier reeks of a dude that can't pass a drug test.
You are right, should of done work comp. Hopefully it won't work out bad for you. If it was me I'd pull a random UA on every employee today. Problem is, this guy has some real leverage on you now and can cause you serious and expensive trouble.
I also agree that you should talk to a lawyer, sounds pretty severe but if you own the business you have everything to lose.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By Eric Carroll (**) Date 11-16-2008 06:51
I was just thinking about this guy and wondering how long he had worked for me! I fired this guy about 4 months ago for not calling in for two days in a row. At the time off the injury he had passed a few pee tests as alot of the places we work make you do a safety class and the whole deal. This accident and the way it played out went as smooth as it could, but if the guy wanted to be a sleaze it would have been a real pain. A lot of people say if you report an injury your rates will go up- then some say they wont? I feel like they will, but thats cause it seems this stuff never get cheaper! This accident went from a bruised toenail to what could have been a broken foot- we should have reported it right away and keep everything on the level. They way I see it now is the two weeks I paid him for was a investment for a good lesson. What about metal in the eye? what do you guys do ? Is that a worker comp thing? We have a eye doctor close to the shop and it cost around $60.00 to get it out and a follow up.
Parent - - By djm1987 (**) Date 11-16-2008 16:43
I worked with and Eric Carroll out of UA Local In Lubbock. The job was in Billings Montana Turnaround at Conocco in 1999. Just wondering if it was you?
Parent - By Eric Carroll (**) Date 11-17-2008 02:52
Nope! not me. Havent worked outside of the southeast since 97' .
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / paid time off when hurt?

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