Some suggestions on a SMAW lecture

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 08-11-2007 21:16

I bet if you go to those instructors who think SMAW is king and just honestly tell them the same thing you just told us, one if not all of them will take you under their wing and share there syllibi, materials, texts, powerpoints etc. Being humble goes a long way...

You have been hired... you are good enough. Don't try to hide your inexperience cause it just never works.

Also If the regular program has a selected textbook it probably comes with about a Gig worth of powerpoints in the can, already made... Tell us the regular textbook title and many of us can help you from there.

By arcboy

Date 08-11-2007 21:57

I really don't want to ask other instructors. To me this shows that I don't know enough to teach it. I think they would be insulted or very upset if I told them I can't come up with enough lecture material for the semester.

The only thing that I was asked to incorporate into the class is homework, mid-term and final exams, I was already given a list of welding tasks.

The book is 3rd edtion Welding Principles and Practices by Sacks and Bohnart.

The only thing I disagreed with at this college is they have strict tardee and attendance policies with students. I thought this was college not high school. If you pay for your education I believe that you should have the choice to attend when you want. Unless the student is disruptive to others. I don't think that you should be punished if you think you can take a day off or come in late. College is a time to learn more responsibility and figure out what works for you.

Anyways, just my 2cents on that.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-11-2007 23:28 Edited 08-11-2007 23:37

Hi arcboy!
Please do'nt take this the wrong way so, here goes:
Son! you better shake that crap out of your head, straighten up, and fly right "arc boy!!!"
I believe Lawrence just gave you some very sound advice and if I were you, I'd take it seriously!!!

Here's a couple more suggestions:
1) Get yourself a hold of "The AWS Welding Handbook" Volumes 1 and 2...
If the college library has it then you have immediate access to it... If you cannot get thirty two hours of lecture time for SMAW out of those two books well, I'd start thinking about another line of work!!!

2) Cover the entire AWS electrode classification system in detail for SMAW!!! I can take ten hours on just that alone,and stretch it another 4 to 6 hours if I need to!!!

3) Get a hold of Lincoln, Hobart, Mckay, ESAB, and any other smaw consumable producer... Ask for their literarure on their whole line of SMAW electrodes, including their hardfacing electrodes... Anything that you may need help with either ask us about it or contact the producer/manufacturer themselves... I know that without even trying, I can make four hours of lecture time just by doing this alone.

4) You're going to have to cover the Constant Current type of power source whether the power source is an inverter, transformer rectifier, or an engine drive power source that'll give me at least another 6 hours of lecture time, and I can stretch that out to twelve if I need to.

5) Learn and convert to lecture material the various techniques that different types of welders use especially downhand on pipe but, if you do'nt have experience with it then you must commit to be taken under the wings of one the other instructors like larry mentioned earlier. :)
6) there's enough lecture material to fill in a bookwith 1K pgs. with all of the relevant technical info that's available @ Lincoln'sMiller, ESAB's , Hobart, Mckay and any of the other manufacturer's site that you can use for lecture material... There's also the AWS Library that has some good info and maybe even some .ppt's (Power Point Displays) for you to utilize so get ready to get down & dirty and start putting together thirty two hours worth of lecture material!!!

Question 1): When do you start and when do your classes start??? If you have any lead time then, take advantage of it to polish yourself up and to learn from the "crackerjacks" - Capish???

Question 2) How bad do you want to teach? How bad do you want to be successful in what you want to accomplish?

I almost forgot, about your feelings regarding the college's strict attendance & tardiness policy...
The College is trying to simulate an environment that's as close to being an employee for an employer for the student so they can get rid of any bad habits that were carried over from high school in order to get them at least in that category, better prepared for when they enter the workforce so if I were you , I would definitely embrace it or you may not have that position much longer if you let your students get away with disrespecting the college's attendance policy.

I'll sum it up by stating to you in no uncertain terms that if you cannot get thirty two hours from the suggestions I gave you, then I'd strongly advise you to look for another line of work.

I'll also remind you how important it will be for you as one of the educational representatives for this college to uphold their existing policies regarding attendance and anything else for that matter or you might find yourself looking for some other line of work.

Hey but, what do I know!!! I've only got over fifteen years of teaching experience under my belt so, maybe that's not enough, maybe it is... All I can do is give you advice, and suggestions based on my own experience, and what I know through reviews and evidence that works!!! You do what you think is best "arcboy". :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By arcboy

Date 08-12-2007 01:01 Edited 08-12-2007 01:15

Thanks guys.

I have a lot of resources to put into lectures I just really wanted to get some insight on someone elses suggestions to improve my lectures. I want too be the best that I can be. I had a realy good instructor and I want to return the favor too my students. I would like to make learning fun, I know it won't be a problem in the lab. I just rember when I was in lecture I really didn't pay any attention and just wanted to get out and weld. I figured who needs this book crap, well I forgot a lot and it bit me in the butt when I got in the field. I did a lot of book work after college especially before the CWI exam. I just don't want my students to do the same!

Too answer Henry's question:

1: My first class is Aug. 21st. I have been preparing a bunch of lectures, this is why I decided to post the topic. I already had a whole semester of GMAW lectures prepared and ready, but that won't be useful this semester, maybe next.

2: I had an opportunity to teach for a semester where I graduated, due to the instructor/program coordinator had some medical issues which took him out. I immediately fell in love with teaching. I have always taken great care and pride in being able to teach someone the skills I have learned and developed over the years. This is something that I would hope to become FT in the future. I had tried Structural Steel inspection and found I am scared of heights and hate construction. I know I love teaching so it was automatic to go for this. I would like to try running a PT Micro-welding business. Or teach PT and get a FT CWI shop inspection position. Right now welding FT and teaching PT is fine.

As far as the Attendance and tardiness policy I totally understand why they are in place. It is useful to help with real world scenario but it is also as important to let them learn the hard way. That was my only complaint about the college, they are just a bit different from many other colleges that I have visited and known people go to.

By aevald

Date 08-12-2007 00:04

Hello arcboy, you have been given a lot of great information from both Lawrence and Henry, you may not totally agree with all of what was sent your way, but trust me they have been straight with you. I too instruct at a community college and have done so for a number of years and yes you do represent the institution and are a reflection on it's values and purpose.
Since this is an introductory class you should concentrate on the basics of the process, that includes safety, equipment identification, proper set-up, rod identification, polarity differences and application, and a number of other important items. Think of this lecture in terms of how you were taught when YOU started, hopefully your instructor(s) took the time to explain all of the basics and gave you enough information to give you a proper start and a good understanding of what is happening and how it should be happening. I believe that if you think about it a bit you will have no problem coming up with "enough" content to satisfy this lecture component that is required of you.
As far as the whole issue of tardiness and class attendance goes, you do need to respect the wishes of the institution, or you may well be given your walking papers. Having said that, I understand where you are coming from, if you have issues with this policy you should have some discussions with the other instructors to see where they are at with this policy and should also have this discussion with the dean that you are under or whoever it is that is your superior. I teach fulltime during the day at my institution and also do a part-time set of classes in the evening. I am very careful to explain and lay-out my position on class tardiness and non-attendance when it comes to classes, for the daytime students who are full-time degree or certification seeking, I let them know that these classes are to be treated as a job. When they have completed their schooling or during the course of their schooling it is very possible that I will receive requests from area employers for candidates for employment and I will consider their attendance habits when I give recommendations for these job offers. As for a majority of the night students, I realize that many of them are holding down a fulltime job and also have other responsibilities and thus I look upon their attendance in a slightly different light. The key thing that I am trying to stress here is to communicate with the institution that you have accepted work with, express your ideas freely but be prepared to have reasons for backing up your thoughts on whatever issues you discuss.
Finally, unless there is something going on here with the situation at this college with the other instructors that hasn't been brought out here, you will likely find, as Lawrence discussed, that they would welcome the opportunity to have input on how you will be teaching your class. You will likely need to make the first steps to gain their advice. Best regards, aevald

By arcboy

Date 08-12-2007 01:20

I agree with what everyone is saying and I just want to be the best I can be. I always strive to do the best. I take a lot of pride and satisfaction in seeing a student make a weld and look at you with a big smile and see that it just clicked for them. Now they know what to do and move on to the next challenge.

I won't ever challenge the colleges policies, this would be a bad idea if I want a FT position and wouldn't help anyone out.

I feel I can be a better instructor if I get a feel for how others teach. Get to use their techinques and wisdom.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 08-12-2007 03:49 Edited 08-12-2007 03:54

I also use Sacks and Bohnart Welding Principles and Practices 3rd edition.

Good news is that the publisher McGraw Hill has a whole package of instructor resources including in depth powerpoints that cover every paragraph and every chart and picture in the textbook. I usually don't use these powerpoints as is, But I sure do take advantage of clipping parts of it out and pasting them into my own powerpoints. But if you are in a hurry they are very good until you get your own stuff in the can.

This textbook also comes with some web based stuff... It comes with a Teacher CD that has a quiz/test builder, Lots of good whistles and bells.

If you search out the SMAW sections of this textbook you will see that it still favors the old style cross country pipliners... Lots of large diameter electrode exercises, lots of vertical down. Take the exercises you need... eat the meat.. spit out the bones.

Also check your faculty library. There may be good material there... I use all the Hobart Institutes newly revised Video/DVD packages for SMAW, GMAW, FCAW and GTAW.. If these are available I urge you to review them and the practical exercises that go along with them, they are very good.

Think about making your SMAW students prepared for the first day of work... What will they need?

Safety
Oxy-fuel cutting
Hand tools training
Air Carbon Arc
Power Sources
Welding Symbols
Basic Sketch reading and drawing orientations
Joint Design
Basc visual inspection techniques
Basic Measurement

Hey I haven't even gotten to SMAW yet.

The above listing is an off the top of my head grouping of some of the important (non process) sections of AWS EG2.0 Entry Level Welder Curriculum Guide. I think EG2.0 is indespensible for any instructor to at the very least use as a benchmark to make sure everything that a entry level welder needs has been addressed in the Program/Course/process lecture. The Sacks and Bohnart textbook has been edited with SENSE complance in mind and you will find correlation charts right in the textbook for each process chapter.

When you really think about what a welder needs comming into work, an instructor is hard pressed to keep Lab/Lecture to an 80/20 ratio.

By the way.... My students punch a time clock...

By arcboy

Date 08-12-2007 17:25

I don't have access to the CD's, DVDs, powerpoints. At least the textbook I have didn't come with it. I tried searching their website but no luck.

I definately need to expand on safety. Not many people think of how harmful the welding industry can be if you are not careful.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 08-12-2007 18:49

http://catalogs.mhhe.com/mhhe/viewProductDetails.do?isbn=0072979046
This is the link to the publishers list of instructor productivity packages for your textbook. If directly contacted the publisher should provide you with the package at no cost since you have selected their textbook for your program... Knock and the door shall be opened!

Safety
Here is a link to AWS/ANSI Z49.1 Safety in Welding and Allied Processes.
It is now free to download and print as many copies as you wish... Just a year ago these were selling for over $90 each........ Print one for every student and teach directly from the text.
http://files.aws.org/technical/facts/Z49.1-2005-all.pdf

Here are 31 seperate fact sheets from AWS...... Everything from the myth that galvanized produces long term health risks to the contact lenses melting to your eyeballs.
http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-12-2007 01:26

Hi Aevald, Arcboy!!!

That sounds like the ideal course syllibus for the lecture side of the "Introduction to SMAW" course!!!
Bullseye to ya Al! :) Covering those above mentioned topics laid out to you by Aevald sure does cover all of the bases so to speak arcboy :) All the best to you, and a RESOUNDING YES to making the course FUN to learn!!!! Otherwise known as creating a CONDUCIVE learning environment :)

Now you should have enough time to be ready with at least 3/4 of the necessary lecture lesson plans for the course by the 21st of August if you spend a couple of hours every night... The Lab lesson plans are much easier to write IMHO!!! Who knows you might have it all ready by the 21st :) :) :) Start your writing engines :) :) :)

I would also take Al's advice in getting in touch with the dean or whomever is charge of your department to review attendance & grading policies & deadlines for submissions for both as oposed to waiting for someone show you how, unless it's already spelled out to you in the faculty manual.

Respectfully,
Henry

By PhilThomas (**)

Date 08-12-2007 12:17

You've gotten some great advice.

I would encourage you to expand a bit on the topic of safety to include:

1. Fume avoidance. Remind them that regardless of WHAT smaw electrode they are using, that they need to concentrate on ventilating the fume away from their breathing zone...or use a respirator. They will probably only experience mild steel in an early SMAW coursee, but teach them about the big 5 - manganese, chromium, nickel, tungsten and cobalt - that are reported to cause long term health problems if they are not proactive in avoiding the fume.

2. MSDS/Right to know - now that they know they need to be more careful with the big 5 - how can they tell? Trade names like Stoodite 6 or FrogBuild don't mean much to a new welder, but both deserve extra precaution.

Safety topics typicall include thinkgs like arc flash, heat, etc...and all deserve mention, but most of those are "naturally policing" e.g. you won't have to grab the end of a TIG torch more than once to remember to wear gloves LOL. But fumes are unseen during welding and typically thought of as "smoke" by newbies....not a danger to be avoided.

Good luck!

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-12-2007 20:01

I agree with Phil on covering lab safety as part of the lecture lesson plans to be included into Intro to SMAW provided that Safety is'nt taught as an independant course which would mean that they already took the course before earning access to the lab (The logical way to go). Still, before they step into the lab for the first time, I would surprise them with a refresher on shop/welding safety using what hours you deem necessary... Then give then their first quiz with the condition that they must achieve an 85% minimum equivalent in order to get into the lab to start learning how to SMAW!!! :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By fbrieden (***)

Date 08-12-2007 22:22

Why not try a compare/contrast lecture? I do that when lecturing for Secondary and Post Secondary welding students.

By arcboy

Date 08-13-2007 01:08

Compare/contrast?

By Kix

Date 08-13-2007 14:02

You'll be fine man!! Don't forget about the homework and give them lots if you need to burn a few hours. Take lots of time to review the homework and have the students ask lots of questions!! You'll be fine man.

By fbrieden (***)

Date 08-14-2007 00:15

Please keep in mind the reading and comprehension level of your students...most times "homework, doesn't work". Also, don't use "films to fill'em". You can't "have" the students ask "lots of questions"! Questions are only asked after their intrested in a subject has been raised, and certain elements in the lecture have to be clarified. Bottom line....keep it interesting!

By arcboy

Date 08-14-2007 02:23

I totally agree! The program coordinator/instructor informed that this is one of the most challenging courses due to so many want to learn SMAW and it will be there first college welding class.

I hope that I will be able to make it fun and intersting. I plan to use films along with many other informative ways to help them grasp the theory behind welding.

By arcboy

Date 08-14-2007 02:24

What did you mean about compare and contrast?

By magodley (**)

Date 08-13-2007 15:21

http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/esab-university.cfm

Click on the welding technology course and look under SMAW.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 08-13-2007 16:00

More good freebies

Lincoln Electric No Teacher Left Behind.... Free package to welding instructors... some pretty good packaged stuff that is ready to use
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/teachers/

By Mwccwi

Date 08-14-2007 23:11

While we're on the free rescources lets not forget.....
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/

http://www.weldingteacher.com/

http://www.welding-advisers.com/Welding-topics.html

http://metals.about.com/od/weldin1/Welding_and_Metals_Joining_Resources.htm

By pmedicann (*)

Date 08-18-2007 21:51

2 hours of lecture per week for an introductory SMAW course! Who hell designed that program. Are they trying to run the kids out of the program...I'll bet that lecture time was added in by an administrative scholar that has never picked up a stinger.

Look man, forget the dang lecture and get the kids in the booths. THe lecture information can come in bits and pieces throughout the term, but to make them sit for 2 hours each week listening...forget it. You'll hate it and they'll hate it.

You are the instructor in your program and I highly doubt if any of those pencil pushers are going to watching over your shoulder anyway.

Keep this in mind...there are always "hands-on" ways to teach lecture material. It's more fun for everybody and works much better. Get out of that box they have stuck you in and teach creatively.

Also, do not ever tell the students you are not good at SMAW. What a way to start a class by telling the students you don't know what you are doing. I guarantee they'll remember that comment when they leave the first night.

If your set on being a good guy and trying the 2 hour lecture, have the students start saving their welds and you can add an inspection and analysis component into the lecture working with weld defects and measurement.

Here's a trick for you to exude professionalism and studliness when it comes to SMAW. Grab a 1/8" 7024 for a demonstration. As the students are standing around in utter amazement, strike the arc, slowly lay the stinger on the table maintaining the shot arc length, and walk to the drinking fountain and get a drink. The electrode will continue to weld if your settings are right 130-150 amps on 3/8" plate, and lay down a slick bead. As you walk away, keep talking so the students will hear your voice and see you walk away. Then come back just before the electrode is gone and pick it up. THe arc will jump off the electrode at nearly a 90 degree angle and simply melt into itself.

Later in the term, talk amperage with your students, arc angle, etc and try the same trick in a fillet joint.

Are you in Ohio by chance?

By arcboy

Date 08-19-2007 18:52

I agree with getting the students out of the class room and in the booths. I really can't get away from that due to the fact that my boss/instructor/program coordinator agrees with the lecture time and backs it up. I also agree that they should know as much theory as well as develop welding skills. I came from a college that did 75% welding and 25% lecture. I understand that this is college level and if they want to learn how to just weld then they should go somewhere else. I believe that at college level you should definately learn to weld with excellence and understanding of what/why you are doing. They should also understand that you don't have to weld everyday but after a few years of welding experience and getting a very good understanding of theory than it is time to move on to inspection, engineering, design, etc... Not to say we don't need good welders because we are definately short of them. I see a ton of jobs in my area but no one to fill them, at least no one with the skill and competence.

I love to weld! I thought that is what I wanted to do all my life, but the more I got involved and understood this industry I knew there is more out there. This is what college is all about. Not to teach you just to weld but to further your knowledge and career. I made the mistake of not caring about lecture and had to relearn everything. I want to make sure my students understand the same thing.

By pmedicann (*)

Date 08-19-2007 19:50

"Keep this in mind...there are always "hands-on" ways to teach lecture material. It's more fun for everybody and works much better. Get out of that box they have stuck you in and teach creatively."

I cannot emphasis this phrase from my previous thread enough, and for christ sake, don't be scared of doing things your own way...the fact you came here asking for help shows me you are intersted in doing things the right way...and most likely, much better than it is currently done. Don't let the old way of doing things get in your way because unfortunately, I apologize to most old-timers that are reading this read, the old way doesn't work very well with today's student. For other's reading this thread, I am not arrogant enough to question your opinions on that statement as I am sure they are based on experience, so please, don't question mine as they are also based on experience.

It sounded as if the definition of lecture for you is very limited...standing in front of the group talking as they look out of a text book or showing a video. I've been a welding educator for 8 years and I can tell you that doesn't work anymore. That is outdated and old fashioned. I even work along side of a guy who makes kids answer all of the questions at the end of chapters and believes he is teaching them something! Ha Ha Ha! (I laugh at him and he knows it, and my students whip his on a daily basis not to mention I have zero disciipline problems).

Have you ever done a seek and find from the newspaper...you know, look through all the letters to find the words. Did you learn anything??? FIve minutes after you were done, could you remember what words you had to find??? That is the same things kids nowadays do with the questions in a book. They have become so trained to seeking out the answer and writing it down, nothing gets absorbed and it is a waste of time. Lectures go in one ear and out there...always have and always will.

Simply think of the brain stimulation these guys get away from the classroom. Extreme sports, UFC, interactive video games. You have to expand your definition of lecture if you value making the time spent in "lecture" valuable. Is having the students watch in a booth and listen to you discuss the proper way to do a lap joint "lecture"? What about when the students attempt the challenge as part of a large group and evaluate each finished product...is that lecture?

Just get them out of the desk to learn and things will be fine. But don't do what one guy mentions above...use worksheets and crap like that for busy work to fill the two hours. That happened in my education and I always made it a point to let the instructors know I did not appreciate them wasting my time with freaking worksheets and BS. More students are seeing through that stuff nowadays and will respond to the instructor who values their time spent learning...especially if they know you value their time.

There has been one thing I constantly remind myself of when I begin to get lazy with college students that I have seen many instructors either forget or disregard due to extreme arrogance; I, as a representative of my employer, am responsible for taking money out of the pockets of these students...many whom don't have a freaking dime to their name for whatever reason or whose parents are working extra shifts to pay the tuition. What would I expect from the person I am paying for with my tuition dollars?

It certainly isn't to spend two hours a week wasted in a classroom doing worksheets and watching videos. Put the lecture into application..it will work.

By arcboy

Date 08-20-2007 01:27

Very well said! I will definatley be pushing the limits of lecture once I get the program and staff more figured out. I would like to plan things like field trips, and instead of having the students do book reports I would have them interveiw welders or someone in the welding industry.

I definately want to make the students feel they are getting what they paid for.

Keep up the good work!

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-20-2007 02:21 Edited 08-20-2007 23:06

Hi pmedicann!

Alot of the commentary and suggestions you offer arcboy make sense, and while you probably may seem amazed to believe this but, most of the instructors here use the method of applying the lectures into the lab time and more than on one occasion!!! More like ALL THE TIME!!!

In defense of arcboy, he's just starting out and he's not going to listen to only one of us and decide that this is the only methodology to use in this situation... He's going to take a little from each, and every one of us, and through trial and error, constantly modify his curriculum until he sees what works for his students and his own style of teaching -PERIOD!!! it sounds like whos' been giving out the lecture here???

Besides, you're not the only one here who's been teaching as many years because, I know I've got you beat by at least 6 years - not that it matters much as far as time is concerned but, if you or anyone else that has taught welding technology for any significant amount of time has the audacity to say to me or any of my peers that you've never had any mistakes made on your behalf using the wide variety of audio/visual aids, or methodologies, then that person needs to get off of their high horse, and stop talking trash because that's all it is!!! If that is not what you're trying to say then please accept my apology. ;)

In this business, reputation counts, so if your school has a good one then you're teaching well...
How do you know this??? By constantly being involved with the industry leaders of your community, and any of the surrounding ones also because, soon enough the students after graduating will represent the school by the preparedness they got from the instructors who molded them into becoming "ENTRY LEVEL WELDERS", not welders with experience like some folks want to believe should be coming out of community or technical colleges these days!!!

Look, none of us can say for sure what type of administrative structure arcboy may have to put up with but, to assume (You know what happens when we start to think like that!) people will not be looking over his shoulder is outright ludicrous!!! Maybe that happens in some neck of the woods but, that does'nt mean it's universal!!! Besides this is his first teaching job outside of his own school!!! You're darn tooting that they will be monitoring him more so than someone that's been there for awhile and so will the senior instructor because, administration will use that person to find out whether or not they made the right choice!!! Heck! That's a no - brainer!!!

Arcboy seems to have a good head on his shoulder, and that we can agree on but, only he can eventually develop a teaching style that will work for him so that the students do comprehend both theoretically and practically the subject matter being taught!!! Btw, just about every curriculum I've taught has had a built in amount of extra time incorporated into it so as to leave it to use at the teacher's discretion... Why?
Because I wrote the curriculum - that's why!!!

If I've got a class of twenty students that have six of them falling behind real fast after two weeks not because of attendance but because, the subject matter is'nt that interesting, then it's my methodology in monitoring the students progress that's at fault here... If it's attendance, then I'll let them know in no uncertain terms that if they do'nt straighten out and fly right, they're not going to pass - period!!!
They usually get the message because they will sign a pledge to straighten up!!!

That's another form of upholding the school's reputation because, if one let's the students get away with tardiness and excessive absence, then the quality of students as far as their dependability is concerned, will always be in question by the potential employers that need welders!!! Not only that, placement will have a hard time getting these students one foot in the door of potential jobs for them because nowadays, they most definitely ask to see their attendance records for both tardiness and absences besides how well they did in the subjet matter.

Okay so how do you get the students to become totally committed to the concept that they need to dedicate themselves to get rid of any bad habits that they may of had beforehand, and to really get them involved in the learning process???
1) You make them sign a contract with you as the instructor totally independant of any other papers they may have signed off beforehand!!!

2) You give students that may be lacking in absorbing the subject matter to have the opportunity to stay after class for an extra 45 minutes for more individualized instruction because, not every student learns the same way, and to classify them into groups or categories alone is not enough!!! Why??? Because there are subgroups and hybrid groups that are not always present within every student body that makes up each course!!! In other words, every class has a different set of characters!!!

3) Make the learning environment conducive, pleasant, fun but also, no nonsense!!! Make darn sure that you treat each and every student with respect because once you lose that -you're finished - KAPUTSKY!!! Show them by example that you care about them, that you'll go the extra mile for them if they deserve it!!! Also let them know how safe they are when they're in class. Let them know that you're flexible to a degree but, not someone to be taken advantage of!!!

4) Let them know that if they're struggling with the subject matter, to let you know right away so that you can work with them to help them out and reinforce the concept that you'll go out of your way to help them succeed so long as they show close to the same amount of effort to strive for success!!! It's got to be understood that it's a two way street in the learning process - ALWAYS!!!

5) Do'nt test the crap out of them!!! Why??? Because it increases their stress level, their anxiety level, their tendency to think that they'll fail!!! Test them where it counts!!! When the topics are covered and through question and answer, they exhibit a level of confidence in the subject matter... Once they see that they can succeed, they'll put more effort into succeeding again and they'll have to because you let them know in advance that the next test will have a higher degree of difficulty!!!

6) Alway encourage your students!!! NEVER let them know that you lost faith in them because they look up to you like either a father figure or an uncle or big brother that's there to let them know if they fail the first time, you're still backing them up 100%, that you wo'nt give up on them unlike the many before you that has in the past!!!

There's more but, I ve got to stop now because I find myself getting tired and needing to lay down...
Friday was Chemo day so I'm really tired!!! Gotta get ready for the week ahead!!!

To sum it up, Teaching is not an easy profession, nor is it a job!!! You either have to totally immerse yourself in it or you'll find yourself losing interest in very short order!!! The demands are great from your personal time but then again, so are the rewards!!! I'm not talking monetary, I'm talking about leaving a legacy amongst the students that you teach over the years, and how they come back to find you, and tell you how much it meant to them that you never gave up on their eventual success!!! That's Priceless!!! :) :) ;)

Bottom line is to teach them with flexibility so as to cover the core curriculum within you own discretion so long as you have cooperation amongst the students because on the flip side, you may end up having a student who expects those two hours of lecture as written in the schedule so, it's up to you as the instructor to convince the student to go along with what you think is necessary to succeed -CAPISH??? ;) ;) ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By arcboy

Date 08-20-2007 19:08

Everyone has very good ideas and ways of tesching. I will take each one into consideration and try it out. Like Henry says I will find my own way that works for my students. I am sure every semester and every student will be different.

Thanks again for all the input!

By pmedicann (*)

Date 08-20-2007 20:07

I had chuckle when reading your previous post on this topic and I'll gladly accept your apology as you read a few things into the post that were in no way even close to what was intended. Sounds like I might have struck a nerve and for that I offer no apology. If the shoe fits...

You said
"Get yourself a hold of "The AWS Welding Handbook" Volumes 1 and 2...
If the college library has it then you have immediate access to it... If you cannot get thirty two hours of lecture time for SMAW out of those two books well, I'd start thinking about another line of work!!!"

Yeah, what a way to introduce new welders to the profession by regurgitating info to them out of the AWS Welding Handbook. Snore!

You said
"Cover the entire AWS electrode classification system in detail for SMAW!!! I can take ten hours on just that alone,and stretch it another 4 to 6 hours if I need to!!!"

I had to chuckle again...sounds like you're bragging about this as if it is something to be proud of....no wonder nobody wants to be a welder these days with instruction such as this. I would be demanding my money back to as a student.

You said
"I'll sum it up by stating to you in no uncertain terms that if you cannot get thirty two hours from the suggestions I gave you, then I'd strongly advise you to look for another line of work."

Let's hope you give your intro welding students a bit more encouragement than you offer this beginning teacher.

Are you related to this guy who wrote the following????

"You'll be fine man!! Don't forget about the homework and give them lots if you need to burn a few hours. Take lots of time to review the homework and have the students ask lots of questions!! You'll be fine man."

You sound like you have mastered the route to wasting student time which is actually pretty disgusting, but the perfect example for what I was trying to convey to the new instructor of how not to be. If this is truly how you believe teaching welding should be done, take some of your own advice and find another career...kaputsky. You're doing more harm than good.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-20-2007 21:00 Edited 08-20-2007 23:19

Sounds like you are the one that's reading too much into it!!!

First of all I never said to use the book verbatim if you even know what that means! Are you a bit overanalyzing? YES!!!
Second of all, The AWS electrode classification system should be covered for SMAW!!! That did'nt mean that they had to be experts in it afterwards! Overanalyzing again??? YES YOU ARE!!! Btw, if you thought I was bragging, then you definitely are clueless!!! I brag when I can weld 1/8 dia. E-11018M with more than one mirror to RT quality day after day... That's BRAGGING!!! ;) E-7024 please!!! Give me a break!!!

Third... You can interpret my quote the way you want but, if you had any brains inside of that ego-inflated head of yours... You would then know that I was simply challenging the beginning instructor! Once again overanalyzing??? YOU ARE!!!

Now for your question as to whether or not I'm related to the person that made the last quote...
NO!!! Are you related to our current president??? No offense Kix!!! ;) ;) ;)

Here's a question or two for you... Have you ever taught on the college level??? I ask you this because if you think for one minute that it's the same as teaching in the High School level, then it is YOU that needs to go seek some other form of employment!!!

Do you have any idea of what is necessary to teach @ the college level???

I thought very hard about even responding to your previous post because, I did'nt even want to dignify a response but, since you choose to be the "know it all" that you are with such a pompus offending attitude towards just about every topic you choose to debate... I'll definitely take back my apology because, you did live up to being EXACTLY what I thought you are... A real life idiot!!!

I'm beginning to concern myself about how well your students do once they graduate your classes which from what little info you want to share, does'nt seem to be encouraging at all!!!

I'll finish with this quote: "Denial is NOT a river in Egypt!!!" Now I've got to chuckle as I notice how you blatantly think that you are the all knowing, all righteous "Uberteacher" that believes only in teaching by the principle: "It's my way or, the Highway!!!" Give me a Break!!! Enough of your BS!!! It's getting real old FAST!!! Opinions are like A*%H&@#^... Everyone's got one!!! You hung your's out to dry :)

Henry

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-20-2007 22:59 Edited 08-20-2007 23:03

Here's some more good stuff as Larry mentioned, arcboy!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By pmedicann (*)

Date 08-22-2007 15:33

verba..what?
Look, take pleasure in knowing I'll lose sleep tonight over your comments.

If you go back and read my original post to arcboy, you'll see it was written to convey the idea that lecture is not standing in front of a classroom. I make no apologies for stating that type of lecture format does not work any more...I don't care what Hobart, Lincoln, Miller, or my idol, George Bush have to say about it...they are wrong and if you doubt it, dig into some data about the attentions spans of students and how they have changed over the years.

Furthermore, if you go back and read his initial question, I don't think I was out of line to assume that standing in front of class with desks speaking was what he was worrying about. That was what I was addressing. People are so talented if they can get out of the boundaries educational institutions have put in place and hopefully arcboy understood that.

There is so much that gets lost in translation in these forums. That being said, and being a real-life idiot with my !@#$%^& hanging out somewhere drying, keep in mind you fired the first shot by assuming my post was anything more than advice to get arcboy thinking outside of the mold. He's not an idiot, he will pick and choose.

Now, I'm guessing you know what you are taking about when it comes to welding education...as do I. I'm sure we both run the best welding programs in the country. So let's just both make asses out of ourselves and assume two hardheads met in this forum and read a little more into things than maybe we should have.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 08-20-2007 21:42 Edited 08-20-2007 21:47

Didn't this thread take an unplesant turn!

Still I have a thing to say

The Hobart Institute who I respect for developing the best entry level welding curricula, and this goes for each process mind you, suggests that lab to lecture ratios run about 80/20 Lab/Lecture.

A typical intro to SMAW runs something like 180 hours or about;
4 hours a day 5 days a week for 9 weeks
Or
5 hours a day 2 days a week for 18 weeks

That 80/20 ratio works out to about 2 hours per week lecture for the short course and about an hour for the long course... (Funny how that works)

My experience is that that ratio runs true... now it surely is not consistent... the beginning is going to be front loaded with lecture with safety, setup and beginning theory... I make darned sure that as the semester progresses that most days are structured with just a safety brief at the opening and then into the workstations to make sparks.

But just instructor demos and booth time will not a welder make... Even the non code shops in my region require a high score written exams before a welder can take a practical test... If you don't know CC and CV theory, if you can't identify electrodes per AWS designation, if you can't interpret symbols well enough to make a small fab project you cannot get an entry level job. Not every welder is a kinesthetic learner; many learners crave verbal (lecture) and video instruction... There are some amazing exciting videos out there by the way.

Theory is vital whether kids these days are into it at first or not.... It's my job as an educator to try to adapt the important data to different learning styles and to TRY to make it as appealing as possible to as wide a group as I can and then to try even harder to come up with ways to appeal to those who don't fit into cookie cutter learning styles. Dyslexic, Deaf, Illiterate etc.

Student learning is what we are all after... and if lecture is jettisoned, student learning will not be very well rounded.

Frankly if the students knew what they needed they would not be in the course.... Becoming a welder is much more than repeating welding exercises in a lab... Without arrogance; Giving people what they need is a greater value than giving them what they think they want. Take a look at the key indicators in AWS EG2.0 Curriculum Guide for Entry Level Welders and you will quickly find many of the important elements required go beyond lab exercises. (EG2.0 was developed and updated by many folks who certainly don't fit the "Educrat" mold.. Plenty of welders, inspectors, foremen and instructors)

Textbooks and workbooks are very good tools, 80% of entry level welders use a computer daily. A welding program that does not teach learners the basics of research is doing them a disservice. Finding data in a textbook and putting it to use in the lab is a proven method to integrate theory and practice.

If your teaching a non credit hobby course ... well fine.. jettison the lecture.. I still think the students are being cheated but I suppose a line has to be drawn someplace... But credit classes for students who are trying to build a career need to have at least an introductory exposure to a great many topics, from shield gas selection to the iron carbon diagram (as unplesant as it may be)

Frankly I have to cut lecture most semesters in order to keep the 80/20 ratio.. it's really not that much time when you think about everything a welder now a days must know.

By arcboy

Date 08-23-2007 19:59

These are very good arguments. I guess it boils down to what the instructor prefers. Too bad the topic has gone the way it has.

My First week is over. I have to say that where I went to college things were very organized and not complicated. I don't know what is going on where I am currently teaching but there are way too many people telling a different story about everything like; when to get the students into the lab, where and what materials to use, 4 instructors all had the same classroom on Mon so we ended up doing our first class in the lab, I didn't have a contract to sign until Tues night, nobody told me that my class has a workbook along with the textbook(which I personally don't have a workbook), I have to get on the college website to verify my roster and to recieve e-miail(haven't heard anything when that might happen), can't make copies for lecture because I don't have a copy card, hoping my car doesn't get towed because I wasn't told until Tues. night about parking passes that you have to apply two weeks in advance for, this is the majority of the inconviences.

I just would have thought a college having a student body of 70,000 would have their crap together.

After all the little headaches will be over in the next two weeks everything should be on a good normal schedule. Finally got the students welding last night (Wed.) and all but one got an arc going very well and just have to work on consistent arc length and electrode angles, that is in the flat position.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-24-2007 04:57 Edited 08-24-2007 05:00

Hello Arcboy!
This should bring humor into the thread... :) :) :)

Welcome to the real world of Postsecondary:

"Governmentium!!!"

Studies of recent hurricane and gasoline issues have proved the existence of a new chemical element. A major research institution wishing to remain anonymous, has recently announced the discovery of the heaviest element yet known to science. The new element has been named "Governmentium."

Governmentium (Gv) has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons, and 199 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons. :0 :0 :0

Governmentium is inert. However, it can be detected, because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A minute amount of Governmentium can cause a reaction that would normally take less than a second to take over four days to complete.;( ;( ;(

Governmentium has a normal half-life of four years; it does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places. In fact, Governmentium's mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganization will cause more morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes. :) :) :)

This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe that Governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a critical concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as Critical Morass. :( :( :(

When catalyzed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratium (Am) -- an element which radiates just as much energy as Governmentium since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons. ;)

Like Kix said earlier: "You'll be fine man!!!" ;) ;) ;) Ask as many questions as possible towards the rest of the staff so that you familiarize yourself in advance how the school executes their grading policies. Get in early before the start of your second week and secure that roster, parking pass and the copy card. :)
Tell them that you cannot afford to pay whatever it is the tow company will charge if your car gets impounded! I hope everything goes much smoother for your second week!!! All the BEST TO YOU!!! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By Flash Date 11-21-2007 09:27

Hi Arcboy
I have been teaching welding in Australia for 10 years and have finished a B Ed recently
I have taught pre apprentice to diploma level all have their unique challenges
as far as I can gather from your posts you display one key attribute of a good welding lecturer, you care
you care about what you deliver and want to get it right, good onya I hope you succeed
there are plenty of tips out there
a few I could add if they can be useful are

keep them involved and busy, if it is verbal or written questions, discussion or they will get bored
take them through the safety and get into the work shop to deliver your theory if possible, when u first start it helps you to feel more comfortable as this is the setting your are more confident in, I know I was

respect them and treat them like peers and they will respect you,
When I started I was told that students were to call me mr XXX, I laughed at my management and explained I work in an adult education facility and as such I will treat them like adults, commmanding respect by asking students to call you Mr. and Sir is an old school approach, that does not work in a modern environment. I have fantastic relationship with my students who have developed respect for me by the knowledge and assitance I offer them
rather than demanding respect and the students only pretend to respect you then call you all of the names under the sun behind your back

make it fun, do not forget to have the occasionally appropriate joke

I do not know the american system of trade training but in Aust we also have to incorporate key attribute, like problem solving, communication, logic / reasoning. When I first started I got so caught up in the welding side if things, I forgot these and thought that it was the soft skills or the warm and fuzzy stuff that did not really matter

all of the generic skills that are needed in all aspects of the trade and beyond are the key attributes you should be developing in your SMAW welders, so if your students are presented with a problem they can solve it by themselves, so they have the reasoning and logic to produce sound welds now and maybe move onto to design welds later, they have the communication skills to perform their tasks now and in the future

a few specific welding points
the principles of an arc are the same for most processes generally if you can use one you can use the other

like the weld is molten when it goes in, it is a liquid treat it as such, expect it to be influenced by gravity, if you weld in the 2g point the electrode up a bit and use the arc force to allow for effect of gravity on molten pool, use common sense, some times you need to instill some common sense into your students

The two most important things I tell students my students on how to be successful at SMAW or any arc welding are the basics

clean your lenses if you can not see you can not weld
be comfortable, sit down, lean on the bench do what you have to get comfortable and get a positon the gives you good control, often the position they hand write in is good for downhand

I wish you luck on your journey
regards
JJFlash

www.technoweld.com.au