Another "which welder" thread....

Date 08-23-2007 07:29

Hello frozt, have you looked in the search section of the forum to see some of the other threads which might answer some of the questions you may have regarding the reasoning for selecting a specific type of welding machine? I do believe this question has been asked in many different manners here on the forum.
Many hobbyist welders will consider purchasing an oxy-acetylene torch set-up so that they can both weld and cut metal and it offers some portability due to the lack of an electrical requirement, others may go with an AC or AC/DC stick welder using a 220 volt format as it offers a bit more power when trying to tackle thicker and heavier welding requirements and yet can in many cases be purchased for a minimal investment. As far as the cutting capabilities of welding machines, when you are using a rod that is classified as a "cutting or chamfering rod", these rods are, at best, very crude methods for doing cutting and chamfering, there are many other ways to cut that will do a superior job, yet, they will also require a financial investment. Wirefeed welders are very popular with hobbyists and there are a myriad of them out there to choose from. The 110 machines are a bit limited on welding power so you need to understand that they are mainly designed for lighter welding tasks, consider this as you decide on your choice. I will make an arguable point that the wirefeeds are much easier to learn to weld with, although they can have their challenges as with any hand/eye coordination type skill. Hopefully others will chime in here for you and give you many different and helpful suggestions. You may find though, as you begin to weld, that you might just get the bug a bit more seriously and feel the need to set up a full-blown welding shop. Have fun and regards, aevald

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 08-23-2007 08:57

well its just my personal opinion but.......
For that $$ range I do not think you can do any better then whats commonly referred to as a Lincoln crackerbox. There were so many of these produced it should not be too hard to find a used one in the paper or ebay or what have you. Now please understand that for the most part I prefer Miller equipment in general for shop machines. But I have laid a lot of bead on one of these "cheap" little 250 amp machines....and in my opinion they "weld like butter"! Pawn shops, newspaper, ebay you should be able to find one if you look. I believe there is a more modern version of this machine avaliable new here is alink of a new version http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p000014.htm The older ones I am suggesting will have a rounded top to them....that would be worth your effort to find. I am sorry I have no experience with the machines you listed so I cannot comment on thier actual performance......but definitely shoot for ac/dc capability if you can.

Best regards
Tommy

By frozt Date 08-23-2007 22:46

I don't think oxyacetylene is the way I want to go with this, but I guess it might help if I specified what I want to do with my welder too. One of the things I was planning on doing was welding some stainless pipe together to make a simple go-kart frame, as well as something good for just about anything I feel like trying. Do you think a smaller 110V stick welder could accomplish this or would I be better off with wirefeed? And regarding the cutting rods, as long as it does cut, how messy it is doesn't bother me. But the main factor in price I see is AC only vs. AC/DC. Would having AC only limit me that much, or is it much harder to use?

By makeithot (***)

Date 08-24-2007 04:44

For the kind of money you want to spend I think you will be hard pressed to find a welder that will do what yuo want it to. those 110 volt units are not good for much. I'd shop around for a used inverter that will run off 240 single phase then you would have something worth while. you would then be able to adapt aux equip for tig stainless.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-24-2007 05:03

I used a Forny 180 amp AC "Farm Welder" for years. AC is a little trickeyer to learn, but for steel and stainless works fine. Cast iron and aluminum rods only come in DC versions as far as I know, and even with DC these rods are hard to get good results with. The Lincoln "toombstone" in the link Tommy posted is good machine in AC or AC/DC modles, and there are plenty of used ones to be had. They are 220 Volt, as is the Miller Thunderbolt, and the old Forny I mentioned. The Lincoln 250 Tommy spoke of using has a round handwheel to set the amperage, great machine, but it weighs 350#. I got one for $50 on Ebay, works fine. There are some invertor 110 volt machines that work OK, but I don't know of any 110 Volt transformer stick welders that work well. Cutting electrodes make such a crappy cut You would be better cutting the tubing with a hacksaw. Suposedly the Henrob O/A torch will work on stainless, but gas welding on stainless is not generally done, and a cutting torch won't cut it properly. With the wire feed machine You probably need to have the ability to use shielding gas to be able to weld the stainless. If there are self shielded SS wires I don't know were to get small spools of small wire. If You choose a 110 Volt wire feed, get the most powerfull one You can find, a friend has a Century with a 20 amp plug, it works pretty good for a 110 volt. In general I suggest You get a 220 Volt machine, stick or wire. Used wire feed machines are more of a gamble, as there are more parts that could have problems, stick machines, especially AC only machines have little to go bad.

By frozt Date 08-24-2007 06:16

So what exactly is different with AC? Is it just stickier-feeling to move around as you run a bead? And I don't really understand what either of you meant about inverters, are those supposed to take 115V input and convert it to 220V? Also, the biggest problem for me with 220V is that there just aren't a lot of 220 plugs around. The only ones I can think of are for things like dryers, and I hear there are limitations on how long of an extension cable can be used with a welder. Nonetheless, I am seriously considering the "Tombstone" welders, but being the cheapo that I am, I'm leaning towards the AC only variety; I don't know if I will have $600 to invest in a AC/DC Welder. But with AC, not only is it more difficult, I also won't be able to weld iron? Another thing I was curious about was whether you could weld something copper, such as tubing. Also, regarding grinding, do you usually use an angle grinder? And if I have to be cheap about it, would some kind of metal file also work?

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 08-24-2007 07:40

Do you have an air compressor? If so then you can get a cheap air die grinder and use abrasive cut off discs on your tubing projects...very economical and works great...if you don't have air then an electric die grinder will substitute just not as well. There is nothing wrong with A/C only machines...but they just limit you a bit on certain materials and the kind of rods you can use. As Dave said an AC/DC machine will allow you to add a TIG (heliarc) setup later if you wish....That will allow you to weld pretty much any material you wish as well as weld very light weight thinner metals.

An inverter machine is a bit different then your standard welder as it has the capability to highly modify the current/voltage wave form from standard 60hz AC....Inverter setups are capable of welding aluminum with tig leads without the use of a High Frequency unit...as well as other unique capabilities standard machines just don't have. It has nothing to do with the supply voltage.

I certainly did not suggest that you go spend $600 on a welder for hobby use...I was trying to give you a picture of a type of welder I think you can find for the money you want to spend.USED..that would far and away be better then the machines you were looking at. I think Lincoln's name for this unit is an Idealarc 250. True this is a 220V machine. But for the money you save buying used it might be possible to get 220 into your workshop the materials would not be too expensive provided its not 300 ft or somthing from your utility hookup....all you need is the know how to do it or the means to get somone qualified to hook you up. Just some things to consider

Tommy

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-25-2007 02:52

It is a little harder to get the arc started with AC. Inverters use electronics to produce a high frequency AC current that is run through an inductor. This is much lighter & smaller, and electrically more efficient than a transformer, which is what an ordinary machine uses. An invertor is more expensive, and has the potential for more problems due to it's complexity. You would mostlikely run a 220 volt 30-50 amp circut to the area where You expect to weld. If You do it Yourself it isn't real costly. The smaller and lighter Lincoln brand machine I mentioned is called an "AC-225" the AC/DC version is the "AC/DC 225/125". The Idealarc 250 is the 350# industrial machine. All of these are frequently on Ebay, and sometimes on Craigs List. Other brands are fine too, but I suggest You stay with a US built machine rather than a Chinese machine, unless You KNOW the import is a good machine. Angle grinders are handy, even some of the Harbor Freight cheapies hold up OK. Good files cost about as much as a cheap 4 1/2" angle grinder, low quality files won't acomplish much. As to welding cast iron, You need a DC machine, but except for ocasional repair work, I doubt You will be welding much cast iron regardless of what machine You might choose. What sort of copper tube work do You anticipate? Plumbing is generally soldered with a small propane torch. I havn't seen copper stick welding rods, but I have bronze rods.

By frozt Date 08-26-2007 02:54

Looking on Craigslist I actually did find some good welders. One of the ones I'm considering is a Lincoln AC-255 for 100 bucks. The owner says it comes with cable extentions(ground is 37, rod holder is 43'), but he also says it's at least 15 years old and thinks it hasn't been used in at least 2 1/2 years. My questions are: 1) Is a 15 year-old arc welder going to be reliable? 2) Are the cable extensions going to cause any problems as far as the strength of the arc, etc? And also, I hate to nag, but what exactly makes starting an AC arc more difficult? Thanks for your patience.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-26-2007 03:30

I would not be concerned about the 15 years old if the unit works now. The cables will need to be replaced when the rubber is shot, but other than that the AC 225 should last practically forever. My Forny is about 60 years old, and other than replacing a capacitor in '72 and the cables and power cord when the rubber petrified, it has been troubble free. The Lincoln is a similar machine. When adding cables You need to increase the cable diameter as length increases, look up the operator's manual on the Lincoln website, there is a table in it. AC is a little harder to start an arc with because the AC is a sine wave, and before the polarity reverses the voltage drops to zero, while in DC the voltage is always on.