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Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / Big framing square
- - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 08-23-2007 17:31
We have been building some 14-16' structures where the square-ness of the legs is critical.  The guys usually take a standard 2' framing square and set the legs to the base plate.  This gets is close, but even if it's off .010-.020" over the 14-16', they are out 1/4".  Then we spend a lot of time taking cross measurements to get in within our .100" print requirements.  Have any of you seen a 4 or 6' framing square?
This would help us save some time.
Thanks,
Mark
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-23-2007 17:33
What's stopping you from building one?...LOL.... just use the 3,4,5 rule to verify squareness
Parent - - By gkcwi (**) Date 08-23-2007 17:53
What about a sheet-rock square? 1 leg is 4 foot. We even found one that has adjustable angle fixture.
Greg
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-23-2007 18:32
We make those adjustable skew squares out of aluminum flat bar.
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 08-23-2007 18:34
Nothing is stopping us from making one :)  It's just like everything else, easier to buy than make (and cheaper too).

We do use the drywall squares sometimes, but in this application the "T" shape of it is not usable.  Plus they are only accurate for a few months, and then the rivets start wearing out in the T joint.

I wanted something cheep, quick, easy, and square (yeah right, don't we all!).  I thought maybe I should just burn a few out on the plas table, but they warped a bit too much (14ga, and 10ga).  Then if I use something like 1/4", I'll end up with 3 guys with back injuries from handling these things.  Oh well, we'll keep on doing it the way we are.

Thanks guys.
Mark
Parent - By waynekoe (**) Date 08-25-2007 18:53
Cheep, quick, and easy! Sounds like some of my high school dates
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 08-23-2007 18:44
Make a right triangle; shear a corner off a sheet of 1/8" (aluminum is dandy but pricey). 38"  on the base and 50" (4' X 8' sheet) on the altitude. Then fold over the extra 2 inches to make a right triangle 36" X 48" with a 2" "handle"/stiffener. Crop the corner so it fits over fillet welds on Tee joints.
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 08-23-2007 21:06
Thanks 357MAX, that sounds like a good plan!
Parent - - By natecf (*) Date 08-24-2007 02:24
this may sound a little silly but at the shop I work in, we use a pieca of shop grade birch plywood 4'x8' this is about as square as you can get costs about $40, and can be used as a table
Parent - By thcqci (***) Date 08-24-2007 18:57
We have been using this in our shop for several years now.  Works well.  Adjustable too. 
http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level-Tool-ADS48-Aluminum/dp/B00002N5OK
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 08-25-2007 02:55
Let me know what you want, I'll whip it out on my water-jet......no heat distortion.
Parent - - By webbcity (***) Date 08-25-2007 17:07
hey mark , we have one it's a folding one , i bought it at a hardware store i'll get the name off later today try to post tonite . good luck . willie   
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 08-25-2007 20:37
a little math always does the trick for me,take the width of the 2(run) and the hight of the leg(rise) then do the math=
square root of the run squared plus the hight squared will get you an exact dim. cross squared
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 08-25-2007 22:38
Hello ctacker, pathagorean theorem(probably spelled that incorrectly), is the most correct method for squaring in theory. I say in theory because putting it into application on some projects or fabrications can be a bit challenging. The advantage to it gets back to one of the other posts where they had stated that a standard framing square wasn't cutting the mustard due to the size of the fabrication. The theorem method will allow the fabricator to use points of intersection to determine the squareness and allow for bends, skews, and other discontinuities in beams, tubes, angles, and other components of a structure. Sometimes overall squareness of a structure is more important than individual features of that structure. Important point to bring up on your part. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 08-26-2007 02:47
Your assumption is correct Allen, overall length/ square is most important here.  As with all of the others here, we too sometimes have guys that aren't the best in basic math.  Sometimes it takes all they have to read a tape measure, let alone perform cross measurements and math equations no matter how basic.  I want something quick and easy for them to take the time consuming measuring and calculating of it.
Thanks all of you for your suggestions, we'll make something, and live to fight another day.
Mark

Hay SD, how big is your water table, and how thick can you go in regular A-36 CS??  I have a job I'm quoting that might need some machined brackets (like 25-30 pcs 5/8 to 1"), but if we could just cut them to size and still make the tolerances, I'll send them your way.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 08-26-2007 04:37
For the guys who cant figure squares & square roots, any multiple of the 3-4-5 rule is easier, 6-8-10, 9-12-15, etc. The largest multiple that can be layed out on the part should be used. This can sometimes be measured out directly on the parts, or used to make a big square from stock.
Parent - - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 08-26-2007 04:58
http://grail.csuohio.edu/~somos/rtritab.html
In case you don't like the 3 4 5 ratio here are a bunch of other right triangles with integer sides.  Pythagorean triples the math guys call them.
Bill
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 08-27-2007 05:09
I knew there were others, but couldn't remember them, and didn't bother looking them up, thanks for the link.
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 08-26-2007 02:48
Thanks Willie, I'll be looking for it.
Parent - By TozziWelding (**) Date 08-26-2007 14:34
Use the old 3-4-5 method to check the square, then cut a piece the length of 5, and keep it for checking future pieces.
Parent - - By webbcity (***) Date 08-27-2007 05:29
mark , its a "stanley folding square" it folds out to 4 ft. i got it at anchorage hardware just seen it one time i was there and bought it i think it was $23 i would think that they still make them . good luck . willie
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 08-27-2007 07:52
Thanks Willie.  I went to the Stanley web page and found it, ordered one tonight from Amazon, 19 plus 5 for shipping.  That's good, easy, and cheap!!!  I'll give it a try, even if it last for a month, I'll still be money ahead.

Mark
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-15-2007 00:52
i bought a craftsman 1 for 30 at sears garunteed for life jus an FYI for ya
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / Big framing square

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