Ctacker
I have given hundreds of "Fillet Break" welder qualification tests. I do this while acting as a consultant to many companies, who need to get their welders certified "right away". They don't want to spend the money for Radiography or take the time for guided bend testing. In order to save money and time, and just so they can have "Some type of certs" my customers think the 'Fillet Break" test is the cat's meow!
So, the plates are cut "in House" and on the appointed day the whole shop and all their friends shows up to get "Certified". This test is always given and broken in the shop. I also provide a WPS for the welders to follow, and give them instruction on the hold points, the use of power tools and how the coupon has to be tack welded together. I also tell them how the welded coupons will be tested after they weld them.
However, the prevailing attitude is "I have been welding for ten years. I'll make your 5/16 inch fillet weld. that test is simple - No Problem. Let's get to it. I can do this with my eyes closed! (I actually love this attitude. It means that I will be employed for several more days!) So, after inspecting the fit-up and setting the welding machine amperage ranges with my calibrated clampmeter, I watch the first victim make his weld for the record.
After the ends of the welded coupon are cut off, I perform a Macro-etch test, which always amazes the welders. Of course they all fail to get penetration to the root on the Macro etch, and they have failed the test. Oh Shit -Oh Dear! I then make them break the center coupon specimen by hand, using a cheater bar or beam turner. This is usually done very easily, and I show them where they didn't melt to the root, and the slag is left in the re-start. They can clearly see a slag line where they failed to melt to the root by 1/32 inch! There is no argument - they all can see it.
OK! So, now they take two more re-tests, both of which must pass. Uually one or both of these re-tests also fail for the same reasons. Now they need "further training or practice". Most times the employer needs this certification for his current "contract". So, my cotract is extended.
I often wind up giving the welders the "further training or practice". Then the next day or so, I usually give them a re-test. This time they also follow the WPS that I provide. The "I've been welding for ten years" bravado has disappeared. Many still do not pass, but what a difference when it comes time to break the middle specimen. Now it takes a lot more effort to break that coupon. That 1/32 inch more "penetration" makes the coupon twice as hard to break! I then ask the welders to think of all the buildings they have fabricated over the years that have these "weak welds" in them.
My interpretation of 'further training or practice' lets me give specific welding instruction to the individuals based on my evaluation of the way they weld. To me, just getting them to follow the amperage setting in the WPS I provide, may be considered "further training or practice".
Joe Kane
I have to agree with everything you said, even the welder's comment. The one I got was, "This is a waste of time. I'm going to pass this with one try!"
My experience runs counter to what the codes permits. That is, I have had welders pass the groove test and then fail the fillet test, but I haven't had a welder pass the fillet test and then fail the groove test.
I like the test the Canadians give. It looks like the "alternate" fillet test we have in D1.1. You know, the square groove with the 15/16-inch root opening with a backing bar. The welder has to weld the two fillets in the corners just like the AWS test. The fillets are visually evaluated and then if they are accepted, the remainder of the groove is welded just like a single V-groove.
The one test evaluates the ability to make proper fillet welds and a groove weld all in one shot.
Considering the number of welders that fail the fillet weld test, I believe it is one test every structural welder should have to pass.
I'm testing some structural welders now. A simple fillet weld made in the 2F position. This is their second day and not one welder passed yet after each has had several tries.
Finally this afternoon they ganged up on me and said it couldn't be done. The rod was bad, it' the wrong type, the moon is wobbling, and so on. So I told them they were probably right. Who knows, maybe I can't even pass this test! I grabbed my hood out of the van and ran a bead. Then we broke it. Perfect, nearly 1/16 inch of penetration beyond the root.
One of the welders said it had to be a fluke! Again I agreed with him. I told him, "Hell, I haven't run stick stainless in nearly ten years and I'm only an inspector, so it must be a fluke." I ran another plate with the same results, perfect fusion beyond the root.
It got really quite for about thirty seconds and then it was, "How did you do that?"
"Welding class starts Thursday morning Boys!" I don't give lessons or training until they ask for it.
Best regards - Al
I havent had the experiance from a QC point of view,but i can say I've seen alot of good welders fail the fillet test, I was one of those guys that said i could do it with eyes closed,and DID,but that was the way I had tacked everything for years,turning head and weld!
I couldnt understand why most everyone else failed using thier hoods! am starting to see why now!
Pride goes before the fall ....I think that is especially true in welding.
We have a specified amount of training time on test failure...if I remember right its 30 days.....if you blow that you get another 30 days but you have to retest all coupons and all alloy groups all over again. You blow that you are disqualified permanantly. And I agree too many miss the throat on fillets no matter the process.
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