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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / ASME WPS
- - By strat (**) Date 09-03-2007 02:42
I asked this question a few days back with no responce,I figured it might have been a dum one so I deleted it but im gonna try again. You cannot have a wps and pqr performed and writing by a outside party and giveing to a company to use for asme, is this not correct? In section IX it states that they are swps's that states the manufacturer or contractor SHALL weld and TEST following the swps , is this not correct. Any responce would be greatly appreciated.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 09-03-2007 03:11 Edited 09-03-2007 03:14
Hello strat, this response isn't an answer to your question on this topic but it is a response to your statement about a dumb question or one you thought may have been dumb. Many times I have read questions from folks and known that I couldn't answer them and noticed that they have gone unanswered for a long period of time or indefinitely. I believe in some cases it may be due to the way the question was asked. You might consider rephrasing your question as you reread it, I don't know if you did that this time or not. Some of the responses that I have made to questions on the forum here have been way off base due to a misunderstanding of the question and once the original poster included a bit more information or clarified a point it was more obvious what they were wanting to know. Don't think that anyone doesn't want to answer your questions or that they have been asked in a dumb manner, you will continually see folks stating "the only dumb question is the one that wasn't asked", I really believe that is the motto of the folks associated with this forum. So don't give up strat, if you don't get a response think about your question and possibly try to rephrase it and ask again, or try to add some more information. One more thing, think about the topic that you post under and try to ensure that it falls in the correct category, I have noticed that when there have been multiple postings on the same topic sometimes there will be answers under one topic area but not another. Good luck and regards, aevald
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-03-2007 03:31
The general answer to that question is that the contractor performing the welding is responsible to qualify the WPS. However, the letters "ASME" stands for Always, Sometimes, Maybe, or Except. There are weasle words in ASME that allow alternative solutions to nearly every situation.

Two examples where a company does not have to qualify their own WPSs:

1)  Company "A" purchases Company "B"; Company "A" now owns all the procedures Company "B" ever qualified. 
2)  Company "A" purchases approved standard welding procedure specifications from AWS.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By swsweld (****) Date 09-03-2007 05:28
strat, if you are an AWS member you can purchase SWPS's about $60.00 cheaper than a nonmember. Just recieved a catalog from AWS containing SWPS's on page 22 & 23. Many of them are accepted by ASME. Probably can access them from their web site too.
Parent - - By strat (**) Date 09-03-2007 15:13
Thanks guys, I have the upmost respect for everyone here and aevald you are also correct in everything you say.I am not the greatest at asking and wording and I apologize for saying it was a dumb questioun. What im trying to say also is that I was at this company that was doing structural work under D1.1. They were using prequalifide wps that they got from a outside party with no pqr's. They do not do any asme code work but they had asme wps's in ther book.I asked who did them and they also got them from the outside party. ( the outside party being a inspection agency) I just didnt think that was right. And again I appoligize for the dumb question statement
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-03-2007 17:14
A prequalified WPS is simply one that meets all the prequalified criteria specified by D1.1 Section 3, thus the procedure does not have to be qualified, i.e., there is no PQR required.

Anyone can write a prequalified WPS.

The issue you point out is one of ethics. Is it proper for a third party inspector, being paid by a client, to inspect the work performed by a contractor and "sell" WPSs or charge for any other work or services to for the contractor during the course of the project? That is, should the inspector or inspection agency collect fees from both the contractor and the client on the same project?

My reply is "no". Other people my disagree, but this is my opinion.

I get around that problem by charging my client for all the work done on the project. If I test the contractor's welders, my client pays for the testing. If I have to write a WPS for the contractor, my client pays my fees. My client can absorb the cost or pass it on to the contractor, but in any case I am not collecting money from the contractor and my client on the same project.

As a third party inspector, I will not provide the contractor advice on "how to do something" for a project where I am being paid by the client. If the client asks me to provide an opinion or some direction on the solution to a problem, I do so, but still, it is the client that pays for my services, not the contractor. I usually tell the contractor that they should retain the services of a different "welding consultant" so that I maintain an arm's length from the contractor doing the work to maintain my objectivity and to minimize the appearance of any conflict of interest.

I just finished qualifying a welding procedure for welding carbon steel to stainless steel with a contractor that will be performing the field welding. My client is the owner on this project. The contractor provided the materials and labor, but my fees for witnessing, recording data, testing, and writing the PQR and WPS were paid for by the owner, my client. We will be qualifying the welders next. Again, the contractor will not be charged for the costs, my client will pay my fees. Whereas my fees are paid by my client, the welding documentation is very specific to the requirements of this project. This arrangement avoids any conflict of interest that would arise if I collected money from both the owner and the contractor.

I hope this explanation and example helps you to understand your situation.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-04-2007 00:08
The answer for SWPS' is this: at least ONE welder from the company must weld a coupon to prove compliance.  Visit Walt Sperko's website: www.sperkoengineering.com Walt is Vice Chair of ASME IX and he's got a couple of great articles on his website about compliance with SWPS requirements.
Parent - - By strat (**) Date 09-04-2007 00:47
Again thanks for the reply's from everyone and al that was pertinent info for my situation , as jon20013 replyied abuot the swps' QW-510 (d) states what he said , The manufacturer or contractor SHALL weld and test one groove weld test coupon following that SWPS.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-04-2007 02:49
Let's not mix apples and oranges here.

The requirements of ASME are not the same as AWS D1.1. Questions about one code should not be intermixed with another code.

This thread started with a question about ASME Section IX and then switched to AWS D1.1. The answers for one code are very different for the second code.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-04-2007 09:01
Al, SWPS are permitted under both AWS and ASME, but ASME contains a more definitive description of what is necessary for proving the contractor's understanding of the requirements of working with the SWPS.  It's my opinion that the statements contained within ASME QW-500 are also how the B2.1 Committee see's things.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / ASME WPS

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