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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Some beginner questions...
- - By frozt Date 09-09-2007 02:46
Hello all, I finally got myself a welder. I ended up getting a somewhat rickety 15 year old Lincoln AC 255 thanks to the advice of some of the members in my other topic. So I've finally started out with a bit of scrap metal and 5 pounds of 6011 :) Anyway, I guess I'll just list all of my questions:
1) I read about electrodes such as 7018 which are for "low hydrogen applications". What is meant my this?
2) For scrap metal and such, is there any way other than sending off samples to a lab to tell what type of metal the scrap is composed of?
3) I don't have a chipping hammer for slag(although I could easily buy one), but I was wondering if a regular hammer would work, and is there any particular technique to chipping off slag? Do you just hit the weld or what?
4) Do cold conditions such as maybe welding outside in the winter have any affect on weld quality?
5) Is there any way to weld aluminum with this AC stick welder? The project in questions isn't intended to hold much weight really, just some semi-decorative panels on the side of a trailer. All it really needs to do is stick.

Thanks in Advance.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-09-2007 03:35
Hello frozt, you've included a number of questions that can have some very lengthy explanations. So I'll give you a few brief answers and others will likely add their explanations as well. Regarding E7018, the description of the electrode, "low hydrogen", defines the characteristic of the electrode to exclude hydrogen from being introduced into the weld pool, this prevents underbead cracking, other additives that the fluxes possess allows hydrogen gas to escape from the weld metal while it is still fluid thus preventing the above condition and also preventing these gas bubbles from solidifying in the weld metal making it look like swiss cheese when it is cut, polished, and etched. The ac machine that you have now will not weld with E7018 electrodes, it will weld with a special electrode called E7018 AC, the standard E7018 is designed to be run on DC reverse polarity. It is also important that this electrode is stored in a holding oven after it has been removed from it's hermetically sealed package so that it will not pick up moisture from the atmosphere or other places.
     Scrap metal has inherent problems with identification. Spark testing can help you to determine mild steels from other possible materials such as cast iron, titanium, high-carbon steels, and such, but you're still not guaranteed that you'll have an absolute identification. Magnetism, weight, color, surface rust, and other characteristics will aid with identification of certain materials, but these are still somewhat subjective. Looking at the use of the material will sometimes give clues to it's type, a bed frame for instance is likely plain mild steel, your kitchen sink, if it is has a shiny, brushed surface, is likely stainless steel of some type of alloy. If your rowboat is made of metal and is light and easily maneuverable, it is likely an aluminum alloy of some type, marine grades are generally 5000 series. All of this may seem foreign to you, the best way to start figuring this out is to do some research.
     Gotta go for now, will add more as I have some time later. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 09-10-2007 14:19
I thought i would post up to correct Aevald in what he said about 7018's and A/C polarity because i would want to be corrected if i described something wrong, and aevald is allways one to help me out.  You can weld with E7018 on A/C polarity for it is one of the electrodes designed to weld on both reverse polarity and A/C polarity.  However they do make E7018 A/C electrodes designed specifically to weld on A/C like Aevald stated.  Then you got 6011 witch can go both ways A/C or reverse, 6012's are A/C and electrode negative AKA farmers road, 6013's can do all three.  When arc blow occurs on reverse polarity you can correct this by switching to A/C polarity.  In your case you will never really have to worry about magnetic arc blow.  However sever cases will still show slight signs on A/C polarity.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-10-2007 17:17
Hello Kix, and thanks for the correction. There are times when I draw upon information that has been stored in the grey matter(this is obviously a mistake as is apparent here) to make comment on a topic. When I saw your post of correction I initially thought that you were wrong, but before opening my mouth and inserting the foot further I did the correct thing, I researched the topic. Of course, I found that almost all of the rod manufacturers parameters for E7018 included the AC allowance for current. Generally this was noted as a secondary choice. In some instances AC was listed as the first choice, I would assume that this would include my initial comment for E7018 AC rods. To me it boils down to this, over the course of my career I have used many different rod manufacturers E7018 electrodes on many different types of machines. In most instances where I have used E7018 on AC machines, unless the electrode had the AC designation on the end of it, it would not maintain an arc with any sort of stability. So to comment further on the E7018 use on AC arc welders, I would make the very un-scientific comment, "try it and see if it will run". Thanks again, Kix, I do stand corrected. Best regards, aevald
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 09-10-2007 18:51
Yeah I've got a bit of experience with welding e7018's on A/C polarity and know all to well about the characteristics.  We use A/C polarity to run open root test plates with E7018 electrodes( non A/C polarity 18's).  Man you'll have the rod pushed up in there tight and the root is going in sweet and then all of the sudden wammoo the arc goes out.lol  Then you tug and pull on the rod till the plate goes fying off the fixture and then throw the rod across the shop.;-)  Puts one hell of a consistent root in when you get er dialed though especially in the overhead where it wants to suck back on you all the time.  We never had real good luck putting in a nice root with the 18's that were designed to weld on A/C polarity.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 09-09-2007 07:45
Back again frozt, anything that will knock or scrape off the slag will work. Some slags come off with more difficulty than others. In some cases how you have the amperage set will have something to do with how easily the slag comes off. Just make sure that you use good eye protection and also protect your body from the flying slag as it is still hot enough to give you a good burn. If you have the unlucky opportunity to end up with a piece of slag on your lip, up your nose, in your ear, or up under your safety glasses and on your eyelid or in your eye, you will definitely think real hard about how you clean off the slag.
     You ask about the weather, cold, moisture, yes these can have an effect on welding. Various grades and thicknesses of materials are susceptible to cold and moisture. That is why there are specific weld procedures for some materials, they may require preheats, interpass temperature monitoring, and postheat procedures, in some cases there are situations where humidity levels and rain can stop certain types of welding from being done. The average home builder will likely not need to be concerned with many of these types of conditions, however you don't know that for certain.
     As far as welding aluminum with your stick machine goes, I can't remember off the top of my head if the stick electrodes for welding aluminum can be run on AC or not. They do make aluminum stick welding electrodes and I have run some of them a long time ago. That particular way of welding aluminum might just about be the last way that I would like to weld aluminum. My experiences with that method weren't good.
     To sum a few things up for you frozt, possibly think about taking some welding classes at your local community college or trade center if you can, or possibly enlist the help of a welding friend. Also see about spending some time on either the Net or studying some welding books to expand your understanding of welding and it's related information. There are numerous sites dedicated to any number of topics that could answer your questions regarding rods, their uses and applications and also give you tips on understanding many of the ins and outs of welding. The forum itself has a search section that could bring up past discussions of some of the very questions that you have ask in your post and could also provide information on questions that you might have in the future. Good luck and keep us posted. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 09-09-2007 07:51
1- already well covered.
2- As above the prior use will usually tell.  If you just want something to run a bead onto for initial practice it won't matter much anyway.  If you ask a welder he (she) will probably give you something to play with.  Could also be the beginning of a potential useful relationship.
3- Most of the 6011 sort of rods leave easily removed slag.  Most any hammer can be made to do.  The real thing is nice though,  a wire brush is good too.
4- Yes but for mild steel at the thicknesses you are likely to use it won't be a factor.
5- There are aluminum stick rods available probably some can be used with AC.  I have found them difficult to use but others do quite well with them.  Better for reasonably thick material.  Since the word decorative appears in your project description I would suggest that you try some other method of attaching these panels.  Pop rivets come to mind.

Come back and tell us how you do.
Bill
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 09-09-2007 16:42
http://www.key-to-nonferrous.com/default.aspx?ID=CheckArticle&NM=12

There are rods for it (aluminum), but to my knowledge they are all recommended to be welded with DCEN (direct current electrode negative). AWS/ASME designation of SFA 5.3.
http://www.selectrode.com/selectrode/pdf/tech/1190.pdf  If there is one available for AC I am unaware of it.

Even assuming you have a machine capable of DCEN, welding aluminum with SMAW is not what I would recommend to anyone but someone with a few years of experience under the hood with SMAW.

I think for the portion of your project concerning joining the aluminum, rivets as mentioned by Bill will probably end up being your best option.

As for the 6011 it's a good rod for carbon.
strength (60)position(1) chemical composition and intended current(1)

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - - By frozt Date 09-09-2007 20:25
Thanks for your replies, and also I had one more question: Does it increase the chance or cracks or affect weld quality if I quench my work in water shortly after welds to cool it?
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 09-09-2007 20:49
If you really want people to believe you are new at this, call it 1109 rod instead of 6011 rod!  We will know that you are the General Manager!!!!
Parent - - By frozt Date 09-10-2007 01:40
Oh, and one more thing. I was welding earlier today and the arc suddenly stopped, fan turned off, the welder had died. I thought I had burnt out my welder after owning it for just 4 days. Luckily it turned out that the breaker had tripped, but what I'm wondering is why it tripped. I was welding at just 115 and I had been for some time before it tripped. Could it have been tripped by the duty cycle being reached on the welder? This welder is 15 years old, I figured it wouldn't have a safety feature like that...
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 09-10-2007 03:18
What size breaker is it hooked too? If the wire doesn't make a good conection to the breaker it can get hot, causing the breaker to trip at much   lower amperage. It should be nearly impossible to excede the duty cycle at that amperage. The most usefull electrodes for use on mild steel with that machine are 6011 for deep penetration and out of position and 6013 for flat welding, poor fitup and light guage stock. 6011 will weld through paint, rust, grease and a world of crap that should be removed better than the others if You cant properly prep the work. I don't know of an AC aluminum stick rod, and didn't have real good results from the DC rods on a DC machine. Quenching the work can lead to hardening and cracking if there is enough carbon and other alloys in the steel, and it is above the critical temperature. Bed frame is high enough carbon for this to be a problem, so is rebar. Typical A36 structural steel CAN be too, it varries a fair ammount.
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 09-10-2007 14:24
6012 is also a good A/C rod and is designed for poor fitup rusted connections.  Thats why they call it the farmers rod.lol
Parent - - By norcalwelder (**) Date 09-11-2007 15:03
hey man I have same welder as you. I had the same sproblem with it turning off, but I put in a 50amp breaker and I've never had the same problem again.
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 09-12-2007 00:09
make sure your wires can handle 50 amps! you cant just put a bigger breaker,in most cases wiring is ran to handle the breaker amps and not much more, so putting a bigger breaker can melt your wires,causing a fire and huge rewiring job!
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Some beginner questions...

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