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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / AWS Learning & Education / vertical down
- - By ks miller man Date 09-16-2007 00:59 Edited 09-17-2007 15:53
Hey all new to the site, Lets get started I am A structure welder for a local shop here certified in mig all position and stick vertical and flat, (getting ready to take overhead been busy).  I have been looking for a new jog one with a little more money and I figure I might as well start useing my truck and welder, I have always been told that you NEVER EVER run a down hill weld.  What is the deal I'm a young guy but I have done a good amount of welding, and when I called to check on the job the contractor informed me that it is a downhill cert I need to know how to do it. It must be a pipeliner thing because even the local linweld guys looked at me like I was crazy when i went in asked for 7024 rod buddy told me that was the rod of choice he happens to be down certified but he is gone to mach to help me. Guys could you please give some pointer technique anything at all thanks.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 09-16-2007 02:52
Hello ks miller man, first off welcome to the forum. It is likely that you will find this place a valuable tool for all sorts of information and such. Now to get to some of your question, it isn't incorrect to make "some" welds downhand, it just depends on the application and the conditions. Tons of pipe and other fabricated items are welded with the downhand travel method all the time. When done correctly, the completed welds will meet all of the requirements for a sound weld. Sometimes there are metallurgical reasons for the downhand approach, other times it has to do with thickness and speed. We could spend a considerable amount of time in explaining the possible scenarios where a downhand method will work and where it won't, I'll leave that for another time.
     Your mention of E7024 rod though is puzzling if you are referring to making downhand pipe welds. I could possibly see E6010 or E6011, or possibly E7010, E8010, E9010 or a few other rods, but your mention of the E7024 sounds like someone is either pulling your leg really hard or possibly you have misunderstood the electrode designation. E7024 electrode is a rod which is designed for flat and horizontal welding, it has a really heavy coating and a portion of this coating includes iron powder to increase the deposition rate. This is definitely not a rod to be designated for downhand welding. If you can include some more specifics regarding exactly what you are trying to qualify for regarding a certification and also the type of pipe and it's service, there are a ton of folks who specialize in all sorts of pipe welding on this forum and who freely share information that can help you out. Best regards, aevald
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 09-16-2007 15:01
Please change the spelling of verticle to vertical.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-17-2007 15:54
Done. :-)
Parent - - By SparksnArcs Date 09-17-2007 02:32
"Your mention of E7024 rod though is puzzling"
aevald: i am 100% with you but i have seen several times 7024 suggested for v.down.
http://www.weldingmaterialsales.com/Product_pages/e7024_productpage.htm
i just saw this the other day and i asked in my own forum if anyone had heard about it...

good luck with upgrading your skills, instead of going at it alone or practicing for the first time on test day:) maybe check a tech school in your area to see if you can sign up as a night student to practice. It is cheaper- at least around here- than buying your own material and electrodes.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-17-2007 02:54
Hello SparksnArcs, as usual something comes along that defies most everything that I have been aware of up to now. Now I have to try this one out myself and see just how this whole thing pans out. I certainly would have never thought that an E7024 electrode would have been used downhand, an E7014 maybe, but not the other. Thanks for the link, definitely interesting. Best regards, aevald
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 09-17-2007 14:57
Watch the terminology; downhand is a non-standard (AWS) term for flat welding position. ie the hand is down or facing down. Down hill is a vertical weld progression starting above or top and welding downwards.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-17-2007 20:35
Hello 357max, you bring up a very interesting point in regard to the terminology. As you said, I interpret downhand to mean vertical down. Yet, as you also have said, if the manufacturers literature is referring to this term to mean that it is actually flat welding, then it doesn't qualify it for the vertical downhill weld progression.
     I have welded a limited amount of pipe over the years, but never a pipeliner, so I don't know if this rod is indeed used for this. I would love to hear from some of the pipe folks to clear this up. So please straighten me out on the use of the E7024 rod for vertical downhand weld progression, is it done or not? Attention appreciated, Best regards, aevald. Thanks to you also 357max.
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 09-17-2007 22:13
The 7024 is not used vertical with a downward or upward progession. The pipe lining/welding in my experience which does not make me an expert; the cellulose XX10 & 11s, the XX48 and rutile 6013 have been qualified, and used successfully. I have witnessed a 7018 open root. downhill pass xray, and bend test. I have qualified electrode negative with XX10 open root, downhill root pass for concrete lined salt water gathering lines. Then hot, fill & cover with electrode positive, downhill. A good test is worth a thousand opinions. Qualify the procedure qualify the welder. If someone was bent on qualifying a procedure with 24s in the vertical position with vertical up or downward progression I would hope they would video tape root to cap (multiple pass) for us who say it can't be done.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 09-17-2007 22:43
Hello again 357max, I would tend to agree with your assessment, as I'm sure many others would as well. I say that having run my fair share of E7024 electrode and witnessing the heavy slag and "fisheyes" as I would call them in cases where there was not adequate current and gravity to aid in excluding that heavy slag from the weld pool. Thank you for the additional comments and I would welcome any others. Regards, Allan
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-18-2007 12:59
357,
I would like to see that video as well...that 7024 is pretty darn fluid, if somebody told me that they could get it to stack up, I'd have to say good for them.
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 09-17-2007 14:58
Can someone "Please" change the spelling of "verticle" to "vertical".
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-17-2007 15:54
Done. :-)
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-17-2007 15:58
Joe is our

Verti-Cop

>snicker<

Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-18-2007 01:43
Oy Vey!!!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By ks miller man Date 09-22-2007 01:25
Hey tahnks for clearing that up, on the rod choice 7024 or 7014 it just seems that there are not alot of pipeliners around here.  Like I said I have only done strictly structure welding 7018, I would like to have some pointers on this technique for vertical down if anyone would be so kind (also sorry for the spelling I suck at it) .  THANKS AGAIN FELLAS.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / AWS Learning & Education / vertical down

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