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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / 3/8" Vertical Up.. .045 or .030 and hard wire or flux core?
- - By ross (***) Date 09-16-2007 14:33
[deleted]
Parent - - By Carbon Arc Junkie (*) Date 09-14-2007 03:04 Edited 09-24-2007 11:32
Have to weld some hunches to the webing of a beam.  Which is the best procedure... using .045 or .030?  And which wire type... Hard or Flux?

Thanks in advance.

"Too shaky and old to do anymore Tig"
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-14-2007 03:21
Hello Carbon Arc Junkie, this must be the day for questions that can include a couple of answers. I'm sorry, the vertical position on beams would imply that you are welding on structural applications and unless there are PQRs and WPSs that have been done according to D1.1 to qualify this specific procedure, that automatically rules out the "hard wire". I believe that if you go with an E71T-1, flux-cored gas shielded wire you will have much better luck and more likely achieve compliance with the code. The .045 wire is more economically feasible and unless there are some extremely thin materials involved here this diameter will work very well. That would be the short answer unless there are other variables that you haven't included in your question. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 09-14-2007 04:43
this question was posted twice
thats why i got to put in my paltry answer in the other thread before one of the big dogs gave you a better answer.
you can count on aevald for the right stuff
darren
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 09-14-2007 06:08
Hello darren, thanks for the words of confidence. Here lately though, I have been on some learning curves on a few topics as well. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Carbon Arc Junkie (*) Date 09-14-2007 04:51 Edited 09-24-2007 11:34
aevald.... 
    That's the answer I was looking for.  I through the hard wire in the mix to get a honest answer.  No pun intended, 1st time at the forum.  And you gave me the answer I was looking for as a cost savings using the .045 wire.  The hunches are 14x30 and the posts are 17x75.  Requiring 3/8" welds all edges and 90% + 3/8" on the top seam of the hutch.  Now the other question I have is the welding precedure.  Would this still be three passes like I'm used to, using 9018 and 7018?  I'm trying something new and not certified with Flux Core Vertical and will be practicing all weekend to get my settings rights and make it look pretty.  I'm sick of eating too much rod smoke.  One more question.  If I were to add 150' of lead to my 50', what added amperage would I need if any.  Gas bottle and suitcase welder will be in the platform Genie with me.

Thanks in advance.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-14-2007 05:59
Hello again Carbon Arc Junkie, I do have a question for you first regarding the suitcase feeder and welding machine that you are using. Is your machine a CV output? If not, you may not actually have the correct set-up to operate within the code requirement of the welding that you are going to do. There are pre-qualified procedures which allow welding with FCAW gas-shielded processes so long as the current is being delivered from a Constant Voltage power source, if you are using a CC or Constant Current power source it requires re-qualification of the process and additional testing. So be sure that you've got your bases covered in this area. Now to hopefully address the second portion of your question. There is likely a WPS in the possession of the general contractor or sub-contractor that is responsible for overseeing the welding that you are going to be doing. If you are the sub, you might want to get with the general and locate this documentation. There should be an entry on the WPS which will spell out the maximum bead widths that are allowed for these particular connections/weldments. Personally, I would approach this in the same manner as you had mentioned for stick welding utilizing multi-pass welds, but verify this first.
     As far as using longer lengths of welding cable goes, try to use the maximum size that you can for any long run. I realize you may already have a certain size cable that you are going to be using so you may have to make your set-up and then get some scrap and go about setting the machine before you go up in the basket to make the welds that count. As far as the settings for the welding, look to the parameters that are recommended by the specific wire manufacturer for the wire that you have. These will be good starting points and you can adjust from there. You may likely find that the settings could be considerably different than those published by the manufacturer for one of the reasons that you mentioned, the length of your welding lead, a few other differences may show up as a result of the control dials on the machine and feeder not matching a calibrated group of settings. So check to see that you don't have the wire pushing too hard into the puddle as you progress uphill, if it appears as if this is happening either reduce the wire speed slightly or increase the voltage. The flip side of that, if the wire appears to not be feeding fast enough to fill the puddle and the arc is burning back towards the tip you will either need to increase the wire speed or reduce the voltage. You will also need to pay attention to wire stick-out, if you don't have enough you can end up not allowing enough preheat on the fluxes and this can cause worm-tracks or other discontinuities in the weld, if you have too much you may notice a bunch of wander in the arc due to the cast of the wire as well as the possibility of either losing the shielding gas coverage or causing a venturi or turbulence in this process and drawing atmospheric contamination into the pool. Typically I would use similar gun angles to those that you would use when stick welding a vertical joint. When things are adjusted properly the bead will have an almost flat to slightly convex face, the edges will not display any noticeable undercut or underfill, and the slag will generally almost fall off. Good luck on your task ahead. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By Carbon Arc Junkie (*) Date 09-14-2007 11:56
Good morning aevald...  
     Yes, the suitcase is a Thermal-Arc Hefty II CC/CV with the Thermal Arc Predator Pro Gas unit, well Used, like me, and is tuned up every year, not quite like me.  The WPS will be present Monday morning to do a test on my weldments from samples I do at the sight.  They are aware of my stick welding because of past projects.  And I will get the needed spec. documents today before I spend the weekend in the pole barn.   All the other information you've given me is useful and very appreciated. 
     I'm 60 years old and love to spark morning, noon, and at night <--(with no Pay).  I have a good seven years left in me and willing to learn something new.  This project will will give me that challenge and if it doesn't work out using the wire feeder to where I feel good about my signature weld, I'll have to do it the old fashion way -- rod, needle scaler, and wire brush in that order.

Have a great Day and thanks again very much!

"Where there's SMOKE, it could be Carbon Arc Junkie making money."
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-14-2007 13:17
Carbon Arc Junkie, never too old to do what you enjoy. I did forget another item in regards to settings and such and that is the flow rate on the gas. Since you're outside, you may want to set it at around 20 cfh, topping out at around 30 cfh, don't go too high though because of the turbulence and venturi effects that can be caused. Keep in mind any breezes that might come up and if need be you'll possibly want to set up a wind break in the vicinity of your work. Good luck and enjoy, regards, aevald
Parent - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 09-15-2007 02:46
Ross

Can you change verticle to vertical?
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / 3/8" Vertical Up.. .045 or .030 and hard wire or flux core?

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