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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Porosity in A335 P22 using GMAW
- - By cudaxtreme (*) Date 09-24-2007 00:34
Hi,

I'm having a persistent porosity problem welding A335 P22 with GMAW (ER90S-B3). Its machine welding with 1G rotated.  I have tried 10degrees drag/push and 90degrees gun angle with about 15mm electrical stickout.

Here are the typical welding parameters for the 1.2mm wire with 80Ar 20CO2 (flowrate 18-20L/min).  Travel speed ranges from 250mm/min to 400mm/min

Hot pass 19.5V, 120amp, WFS 150"/min
Rest 30-32V, 300amp, WFS 400"/min

Porosity is random and not localised.  I have changed 3 wire manufacturers and 2 gas manufacturers so I'm pretty sure its not the wire and gas problem.  I'm wondering if 18-20L/min flowrate is too high for 1G welding?  The welding area have a wind shield.
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 09-24-2007 02:42
18-20 L/min = 38-42 CFH on our side of the pond.  This would be a reasonable gas flow setting for GMAW.  The travel speed sounds a bit too fast though (10-16 in/min).
Parent - By darren (***) Date 09-24-2007 04:42 Edited 09-24-2007 04:45
Fire Pit Cover        

ER90S-B3 is for welding 2 1/4 chrome, 1 moly steels, frequently piping in the petroleum industry and for elevated temperature service, Preheat is necessary and a post-weld heat treatment is usually required.

AWS Specification          
A5.28 - 79

AWS Classification           
ER90S-B3

Welding Current
GMAW-DCEP
according to this maybe wrong gas?

here is another thread on the topic
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=8355

Typical Wire Certification
C         0.08
Si        0.60
Mn       0.60
Cr        2.50
Mo       1.00

Typical Mechanical Properties (As Welded)
Yield Strength, psi . . . . . . . . . . . . 78,000
Tensile Strength, psi . . . . . . . . . . 90,000
% Elongation in 2" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17

Welding Positions
All

Shielding Gas
CO2 or Ar/O2 mix

Available Diameters
Spooled: .035", & .045"

Operating Range in Diameters
.035"    100 - 150
.045"    150 - 200

Parent - By Fredspoppy (**) Date 09-24-2007 11:35
Look real close at the molten weld puddle while welding.  Depending on the gas cup diameter and your travel speed, the weld may not be completely solidified prior to exiting from under the gas cup.  If this is the case a larger gas cup/a bit slower travel, a bit lower amperage (to make the puddle smaller) etc may help eliminate the problem.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-24-2007 11:52
Random porosity sounds like a gas coverage problem rather than a gas quality problem, So I agree with ya there.

Robot speeds often require higher gas flow rates (up to 2x what is normal manually)

But before you increase I would make a simple check of all connections, and especially O Rings at the end of your whip. 

Those 15 cent O Rings if damaged will make exactly the type of discontinuity you describe.

Just a thought.
Parent - - By cudaxtreme (*) Date 09-24-2007 14:47
I cant really see any porosity on the surface.  The weld surface is very shiny after brushing off the slag formed by the CO2.  Almost all porosity are non-surfacing.  I used soap water and cant really find any leaks from the cylinder all the way to the gun.

I'm thinking if the gas coverage is not enough, the weld surface should be dull and full of porosity?  If I lower the flowrate to 10L/min then I would see surface porosity.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-24-2007 14:57 Edited 09-24-2007 15:18
Hello cudaxtreme, this one may seem a little bit out there, but make sure that you have the correct type of hose to connect your regulator to the feeder or any of your other gas connections. In some cases if someone has inadvertently changed one out and not paid attention to the type they may have substituted it with a hose that has internal oils which can cause contamination problems.
     Also something to look for, is there any possibility that anything has been dropped on the whip at any point? I have run into instances where something has been dropped on the whip or it has been burned by slag or other hot items and has compromised the gas passage, in some of these cases the repositioning of the whip has either allowed for proper gas flow or has allowed it to leak and cause problems. One additional item, and please forgive me if this sounds elementary, but have you taken care to see where the the contact tip is in relation to the nozzle, 1/8" recess to flush is generally acceptable, if it is sticking out past the end of the nozzle you can run into turbulence or a venturi effect resulting in atmospheric contamination. Just a bit of additional infomation to consider. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By cudaxtreme (*) Date 09-27-2007 09:23
I'm checking at the gas flow at the gun nozzle.  When set at 20L/min, is it normal to feel little gas movement?  When a tig torch is set for 10L/min, the gas movement is quite significant.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-27-2007 13:47
Hello cudaxtreme, consider that the movement you feel at the nozzle is actually the velocity of the gas. If the nozzle is larger than that of the tig torch cup that you are comparing it to it will exhibit less velocity and thus feel as if there is less gas flow. At the same flow rate, a smaller nozzle or cup will exhibit more gas movement than a larger nozzle or cup will. Hope that I explained it in such a way that it makes sense. Best regards, aevald
Parent - - By cudaxtreme (*) Date 09-28-2007 01:42
I'm aware about the size of the gas nozzle does affect gas velocity but I'm thinking whether to increase the gas flowrate to match the velocity of a tig torch?

After looking at the design of a mig gun, I understand that its not completely air tight, there will be leakage at the wire feeder side.  So setting 20L/min at the cylinder will not equal to 20L/min at the gas nozzle.  I'm trying to source for a gas nozzle flowmeter but meanwhile I'm interested to know if I should increase the gas velocity to match a tig torch?
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 09-28-2007 04:30
Hi again cudaxtreme, gas shielding parameters, gas passage integrity, quality of shielding gas, turbulence in the gas column, all of these things will have an impact on the finish welds that will result. If you are afforded the luxury of doing some testing with your set-up, try very methodically changing the different things that have an effect on the shielding, but try to change only one thing at a time. For instance, change to various flow rates and see if you can notice differences in the welding bead appearance and note any porosity or other inconsistencies. Generally insufficient gas flow and you will note porosity or possible discolorations of the finished bead face. Too much flow and you might also notice porosity as a result of excessive turbulence in the gas shielding column or possibly a venturi type effect similar to a carburetor which will mix atmosphere into the shielding gas resulting in porosity. In extreme cases where you are using a considerable amount of CO2 in the mixture you might have a regulator or flowmeter freeze-up due to high flow rates. In an instance such as that the high flow rates will cause the liquid portion of the CO2, while changing from a liquid to a gas, to cool so much that it will literally freeze the internal components of the regulator and possibly cut-off the shielding gas and prevent it from doing it's job. This may require a heated flowmeter. Experiment with gas nozzle to work distances, changes here can also affect gas shielding integrity. Contact tip position relative to nozzle edge distance can also have an effect, generally the contact tip should be recessed no more than an 1/8" from the edge of the nozzle and extend no more than flush with the edge of the nozzle, if there is an extension of the contact tip beyond the nozzle edge a possibility exists that turbulence and the venturi effect can come back into play. It is natural that you might experience a small bit of leakage of shielding gas at the end of the liner that is closest to the feed rolls, this is generally negligible and expected. Do consider using a liner that is sized according to the diameter of wire that you are using, this may not necessarily have anything to do with gas issues, but it will have an impact on welding performance overall. Hope that I may have included a little something here that will be of benefit to you in this circumstance. Best Regards, aevald
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-28-2007 22:56
Hello cudaxtreme, I did think of one other thing that I didn't consider and include in the prior post. There is some additional hose that is inside of the feeder that makes the connection from the gas solenoid to the distribution block where the gun assembly generally connects. You might take a look at all of the connections and hose that makes this up and check for any leaks there as well. In some instances, due to any number of causes. A hole can get rubbed into this hose or possibly arcing could occur that might cause a leak in one of the fittings. The solenoid itself could possibly have an O-ring failure that could cause a leak. Just a few more things to consider. Regards, aevald
Parent - - By cudaxtreme (*) Date 10-02-2007 13:59
Hi aevald,

Thanks for you valuable inputs.  The root cause sounds silly and yet its driving me crazy.  Indeed the shielding gas hoses were the culprits.  The rubber hose used were not compatible with CO2, I have replaced the hose with PVC and the porosity disappeared!  Thanks alot for your advice!
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 10-02-2007 14:39
Hey cudaxtreme, that's awesome. Oddly enough what made me remember that little bit of information was a question on some homework that the students hand in for their wire class assignments. I guess sometimes it does pay to do your homework! Best regards, aevald
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Porosity in A335 P22 using GMAW

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