Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / IAS vs AISC
- - By js55 (*****) Date 09-25-2007 19:19
I did a search and found some subject matter but I thought I would make my question more specific and hope to continue the discussion.
For those who have expereince under both certification programs what do you see as the primary differences between the two?
Or, if you are currenlty certified under AISC what would be the primary action to be taken to comply with IAS?
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 09-26-2007 13:15
There is one big difference.  Under the IAS, you get unannounced audits!

To me this makes IAS a more legitimate "Quality" program.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 09-26-2007 13:32
Thanks Joe. I found their website and discovered they require quarterly audits as well, as opposed to the annual review of AISC.
I for myself do not oppose quarterly or even unannounced audits (no honest system should-theoretically), but it depends on the comprehensiveness of the review process, since accomodating such a review requires tremendous recources in time and personnel, and certainly costs as well. And resources that will have to be shifted at a moments notice when they come knocking (not to mention that they may show up on the very day you are dealing with AISC, UL(another quarterly unannounced review body), FM, or whatever other review body you are having to deal with-based upon a recent expereince in which UL showed up on AISC review day-we had to defer the UL audit-and of course pay for it any way-how conveninet for them). This is a real economic burden, and one not to be taken lightly by businesses. If the monetary reward for participation is not justifiable then the burden of review will be rejected.
And so the question has to be asked, especially since my understandsing thus far is that IAS, similar to ISO, is QA/QC oriented and not engineering oriented as is AISC. So, the question is, does all this review and surprise actually make the buildings safer? I'm not convinced a postive answer can be defended unscathed. It can be argued, as has been argued against ISO (a standing joke for all who have been involved in ISO type reviews) that its dog and pony show stuff. You can build crap as long as you build your crap in accordance with your crap building QA program.
At least this is my sense thus far, and obviously based upon ISO experience.
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 09-26-2007 18:59
You can build crap..., Dog and Pony Show...-  You have hit my opinion of all of these programs right on the head.  If the auditors are not fabrication experts and welding experts, and they don't go out on the floor and see the work, evaluate the workmanship and the QC interface, it is all a joke.  Then,  I get the sanctimonious protestations from all the AISC and ASME fabricators when I find that shoddy workmanship is the routine in their shop.  AWS's program is also a joke.
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 09-26-2007 19:15
If you see an auditor come in and not do their job right, you need to call the certifying agency and let them know!

Hg
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 09-26-2007 19:18
I couldn't agree with you more Joe.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-26-2007 19:31
Hello Joe, To me it boils down to some very basic things. If craftsmanship and quality cannot be instilled starting with the individual on the floor and working right on up the chain to the very top in that order or the reverse, however you care to look at it, then you can put any system into place that you would like and still not take care of the issues. I too find most auditing processes do not really address problems or deal with issues. In most cases they bring people to creatively circumvent them and continue with business as usual. I don't personally deal with the organizations that you have referred to in this post, yet I have dealt with others and I believe the results are similar or the same. I guess the big question really is "what's the answer"? Best regards, aevald
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 09-27-2007 17:11
To me the cert programs just set a bare minimum.  If they can't even do what it takes to get that cert, I don't want to do business with them.  It's still up to me (or my inspectors) to verify that they're actually doing everything they told the cert people they would.

Hg
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / IAS vs AISC

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill