Hello all! I posted a thread at least a few months ago about d 17.1 certification and what it entailed. I have my own shop but I would describe my efforts as part time as I have another full time job. From what I have learned it would be pretty freakin expensive to carry all of the cards for positions and alloys and metals in d 17.1 cert ;-) Can anyone here recommend a certification that would add to my credentials? I know that this sounds vague and kind of weak but my understanding of the whole process is researched solely from reading about the various certs in the AWS cert discriptions...which is very vague. I rarely get customers that require a certified welder to perform the process but I would like something to bolster my credibility to new customers. Would the normal AWS certified welder program be the best for someone like me or is there something more specific that I could shoot for? I weld mostly stainless steel, aluminum, various superalloys and titanium. I also have had requests for tantalum for who knows what but as you can see from my material lists you can understand why the d 17.1 cert is so attractive! What do you guys think, and if I have been too vague or if there is something that is missing from the info let me know. Thank you for the help! Thank you for your time =)
If your going to be in the exotic metals welding field and work for yourself, its going to cost you alot of money. I'm sure you understand that if you were giving exotic parts to a welder to fabricate or repair you would want to know they had some pedigree.
Even to certify in aluminum per AWS D1.2 will require you to qualify procedures (heat treatable non heat treatable etc.) before you can qualify yourself as there is no section providded in that specification to create prequalified WPS.
Another idea is to work for somebody else and allow them to bear the cost burden of procedure and welder performance qualification.
So to have that professional credibility you can still try to maximize your certification investment by getting certs that cover as much ground as possible. Still you will need to demonstrate competence in every process and every alloy if you go the AWS route.
THe following can be accomplished at many tech colleges or private welding schools.
SMAW heavy wall pipe 6G will qualify for pipe and plate all positions from unlimited thickness down to 1/8.
If your not a pipe guy than thick plate will cover everything but the pipe.
GMAW short circuit 3G and 4G 3/8 plate open root (no backing strip)
GMAW 2-G Spray transfer on heavy plate
FCAW 3G and 4G heavy plate
GTAW thin and heavy wall tube and pipe (asme qual may be more valuable here)
Just some ideas
By Tommyjoking 
Date 10-07-2007 19:24
Edited 10-07-2007 19:28
Fushionman
Lawrence has listed some pretty good all around type cards. In many cases a customer is not informed enough to know the difference and just knowing that you have certs and seeing proof is enough to secure a job. In the case of a job with well engineered requirements they may require a specific cert to get the bid....... In some of those cases you might offer a contingency...you go get the cert and its included on the bid...if you cannot pass it its on your dime, if its a big enough job it won't be hard to absorb the cost anyway. That might be a thought for building up cards over time without going out and spending 5G in one shot. When I was doing field work a lot of times we went and got certs just to do a specific job...but after the job we still had them to use next time. Covering just a few alloys fully in D17.1 could be horrendosly expensive as you have already figured out..I never would have acquired mine and the stamps on it if the company was not paying for it...........A few all around certs and (unlimited) in each process would probably go pretty far for you....then just take the oddball specific ones as they land in your lap. Think about the alloys you see the most work in and focus on those.
Thank you all so much for your response! It is nice to go to a forum where people have actual good sound advice to offer and not just inflated opinions =) Right on. I guess I will just pick up a few cards to carry for the metals I weld most and wait for specific needs to get the others. Thanks again for the input. 99% of the people I know or come across around here are pipefitters or pipewelders. Most of them don't carry anything but a can of cope ;-) Their union takes care of their certs. So it is nice to be able to contact people who know!
Hello fushionman1000, Lawrence and Tommyjoking have given you some very sound advice in regards to certifications and information regarding them. I hope you will give some very serious thought to another aspect to this type of work. When you start getting into exotics they obviously require some well laid out repair procedures, stringent weld parameters, correct filler metals, proper engineering, etc. One of the biggest challenges when you take on this type of work will be, what happens when it is determined that due to your incorrect procedures or otherwise the item has to be scrapped? You will be liable for the replacement or fabrication of a new part or weldment. This may or not be that big of an issue, but certainly something to consider when you are looking into this from an overall standpoint. Also, if this is only a part-time endeavor for you, proper insurance and bonding may not have been considered. Just don't get yourself out there in a position where you have overlooked this part. My $.02. Best regards, aevald
As important as your welding procedures and welder qualifications are, your quality control system and documentation will be more time consuming and essential to obtaining "good work" that will provide a good return on your investment. Most companies involved in aerospace applications and other "high level" work are going to insist on a formal quality control system as a means of ensuring the proper controls are in place for the procurement of filler metals, to prevent parts being intermixed, proper parts and filler metal storage, cleaning prior to welding and possibly inspection before shipping them back to your client. The more complex the component bring worked, the more involved will be the documentation needed to support your efforts.
Best regards - Al
I have been in the welding industry for 25 years as a welder, supervisor, manager and now an industrial engineer. I have had my own weld shops and worked for small shops and big shops. In my experience certifications are great if you need them if you dont, dont get them. They are just an expensive piece of paper that proves that you can demonstrate control and procedures over a welding process. You should concentrate on learning as much as possible about welding and the science behind it. Base metals, shielding gases, filler rod, grain structure, heat effected zones, joint construction, melting point, beveling, understanding weld symbols, blueprint reading, etc. I know lots of certified welders who have no real understanding of welding or its application to industry.
The shop I work for now has 18 full time welders and is certified for GTAW & GMAW for D9.1 stainless sheetmetal, D1.1 structual Carbon steel and D17.1 aerospace welding on alm. The only reason we hold the certifications is because we had specific customer requirements. We have been in buisness for 37 years and only in the last 3 year did we need these certifications. If you can demonstrate good welding practice technique and procedural knowledge you should have no problem getting certified.
It is real easy to make test coupons and write a procedure then send them to a test lab. We got our aerospace certifications for $700. The new aws D17.1 says if you qualify for 1G you are qualified for fillets as well in sheet and tube. If you use a.250 test piece it qualifies you up to 1 inch thick! Just my 2 cents.
Not quite so fast Fastguy.
D17 provides qualification for two thickness ranges.. (See 4.3.1.1)
Qualification for materials 0.063 or less are separate from materials above this thickness.. It is also notable that in welder performance qualifications in this range, a groove weld test will not qualify a welder for fillet welds.
You are very accurate when you describe D17 in minimalist terms. It is nothing like D1 or Section IX when it comes to procedure or performance quals.
It's also reasonable advice to keep costs down by only spending on certs that are required. However with a little forsight it may be possible to qualify procedures to several codes, D1.2 and D17 for example... Just a little more effort on the paperwork can go a long way to having qualified procedures in the bank for later use.
you are really spliting hairs! What I said was correct if your test coupons are .250 thick it qualifies your welding up to 1 inch thick and down to 063 thick. as per 4.3.3.1 (1). Also section 4.3.4.2 states a weld test made in any position qualifies for all welding position,look at the table 4.3 on page 9.
It's fun to split hairs... No offence intended
Keep in mind that 4.3.2 does not apply to welders... It applies to welding operators.
According to the table 4.3 you mentioned, it is quite obvious that a weld in any position does not qualify a welder in all positions :) For example; a Sheet 3G weld does not qualify for 2G or 4G. and a 4G weld only qualifies for 4G and 1G.
How's that for hair splitting :)
