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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Degree of Testing & Joint Efficiency
- - By Kaveh Date 10-16-2007 06:31
Hey guys!
Here's a question:
Can RT be omitted in CJP welds according to any of the AWS codes?
Perhaps by decreasing of the joint efficiency, like there is in ASME SEC.VIII Div.1 (UW-12)
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 10-16-2007 12:39
what aws code are you working to?
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 10-16-2007 15:37
I don't think there is anything that states that you have to have everything you weld RT'd.  Your question is very vague and could use a bit more detail. No offense.
Parent - By Bill M (***) Date 10-16-2007 18:15
I agree with Kix (need more info on your question)
from D1.1

"When NDT is to be required, it should be so stated in the information furnished to bidders.  This information shall designate the catagories of welds to be examined, the extent of examination of each catagory, and the method or methods of testing". 

If NDT (RT) is required by drawing, contract, or specification it seems to me you have to go to the owner or engineer to request deviating from the required RT test.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-16-2007 18:53
Unlike ASME construction codes, AWS welding codes do not specify anything other than visual examination for the majority of the work. The need to incorporate other NDT, such as UT or RT, is at the discression of the engineer or owner. When additional NDT is needed, it should be included in the project specification and on the drawings.

If NDT is imposed after the project has been awarded, both the cost of NDT, additional preparation, handling, and repairs are born by the owner (not the contractor) unless a case for gross nonconformance can be proven.

There is a paragraph that permits the use of UT in lieu of RT for tubular joints (which must be examined) that are welded from one side without backing.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 10-16-2007 19:57
In cases where RT is required (lots of it in D1.5), I'm not aware of any AWS code provision by which one might reduce testing below the normal requirements.

Hg
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-17-2007 03:14
I should clarify my statements and limit the comments to "structural welding codes", not inclusive of the Bridge Welding Code.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Kaveh Date 10-17-2007 12:12
Forgive my bad English and the vagueness of the question!
I'm working with the D1.1 code and I've got some problems with RT-ing a weldment. Now, I knew about the AWS D1.1 - 6.15 that the extent of testing should be as specified in contract docs. But as I saw the ASME SEC.VIII Div.1 UW-12, I thought that I could use an AWS paragraph like that to argue with the engineer to omit the damn test. But it seems that I'm screwed!
Thanks anyway.
Parent - By swnorris (****) Date 10-17-2007 13:28 Edited 10-17-2007 13:40
Not really.  If there are no requirements for CJP testing in your contract specifications, Your argument will be 6.15.  If the engineer still wants the welds tested, it would then be his responsibility to either pay a qualified member of your staff to test the welds or pay an independent testing agency to come into your shop to test the welds.
Also, if you're following D1.1, you're probably following the AISC Code of Standard Practice as well, which states: "critical requirements that are necessary to protect the owners interest, that affect the integrity of the structure or that are necessary for the fabricator and the erector to proceed with their work must be included in the contract documents".  One example that supports this statement is non-destructive requirements, including acceptance criteria.       
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 10-17-2007 14:32
your specs call for rt. do they offer the option ut ot rt? i do not know of any aws d1.1 job that has allowed the decrease in joint efficienct as asme doese.
Parent - - By Bill M (***) Date 10-17-2007 20:39
Just from an ASME point of view:  I would be surprised if one could talk the Engineer of Record who is responsible for a pressure vessel design to lower his designed E-values, just so a contractor would not have to RT a joint.

I would also be surprised if the design calcs would even pass with an E value of .70 no x-ray, versus 1.0 for the 100% x-ray.  Why would an engineer specify 100% x-ray, if the total design calculation package would pass without x-ray?  (i'm assuming non-leathal...UW-11 compliance)

I would like to ask:  Why do you want to get out of doing the RT....and what problems are you having providing the RT, or providing RT quality welds?
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 10-17-2007 20:51
it looks to me like this is aws d1.1 work. not asme
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Degree of Testing & Joint Efficiency

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