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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / SAW porosity
- - By Shawn111 Date 10-19-2007 11:43
We are running continuous fillets on HSLA steel for built up building members and continue to get porosity in the weld. All of our webs are cut on a plasma cutter. I have tried all of the obvious stuff to solve this problem such as wire, flux, and material (has been tested for make up). I am seeing nothing out of the ordinary. We have removed any oil from the webs but have not ground off the residual from the plasma cut which is minimal.

Thank you  
Parent - - By PhilThomas (**) Date 10-19-2007 13:03
Make sure that the flux burden (depth) when welding is not excessive.  You should see an occasional "flash" if it is correct.  If it is too deep, the gases cannot escape during flux solidification.  One way to tell is to look at the surface of a cooled piece of flux after welding - if there are holes in it, you might be letting the flux get too deep.
Parent - - By Shawn111 Date 10-19-2007 15:32
The only holes that are visable through the weld face are large pock marks. The holes in the face of the weld are so large (Typically 1/8 to 3/16") that I believe they are from a machine fault. The pin holes we are seeing are not visiable to the eye the fillet weld is gouge and the you see the pin holes devloping next to the fusion faces in the fillet weld.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 10-19-2007 20:20 Edited 01-09-2008 22:03
This is second hand info...
When I was setting up a beam welder in our shop with Ken Rorie from KENTEX, he told me a story about a past customer of his that was having similar trouble. He described it as very large intermittant holes in SAW fillet welds made by a beam welding machine. They first suspected cutting slag left over from the plasma table process, but continued to have the problem after implementing a procedure that required all cut egdes to be ground. They finally fixed the problem by changing from nitrogen fed plasma cutting to compressed air. It doesn't really seem logical, but that's what he said happened.
Are you using Nitrogen?

Tim

Update :  1/9/08

My old friend Ken Rorie sent me an email to let me know my memory is fried. I should know better than to try to quote from a 5 year old conversation...
Anyway, here's what I meant to say:

"I have a customer in Arkansas (this has since happened with other customers since this original encounter) who was experiencing large pin holes in his continuous fillet welds when welding with Twinwire, 1/16" electrode diameter and subarc process.  He said the problem was intermittent and could not figure out what was causing it.  I even hired 2 consultants to look at the problem and they could not determine the cause.  He was plasma cutting his webs using an MG plasma cutter and shop air for gas.  The holes were as large as 3/8" diameter and were intermittent.  You might not see a hole for 18-24", then four holes in a row at 2" centers, etc.   

We discovered that the problem only occurred on thin webs (typically less than 3/16" thickness).  This was evidently related to the higher speeds used in cutting the thin webs.   We determined the use of shop air as the plasma gas left nitrite deposits on the cut edge.  When the subarc fillet weld was being made, the nitrite deposits were turned back into nitrogen gas and bubbled up through the deposited weld metal. Changing to oxygen as the plasma gas solved the problem.  I recently had another customer encounter the identical problem.  Their small, home made plasma cutter could not utilize oxygen as the plasma gas, so we used a grinder to clean the cut edge of the web material and the problem disappeared. The important thing was the clean the cut edge of the thickness, not the flat surfaces on either side of the web material.  I thought this further explanation might help explain the problem and what we discovered for a fix.  "
Parent - By Shawn111 Date 10-20-2007 13:35
No we are using compressed air.
Parent - By Mayur (*) Date 11-20-2018 04:25
Dear Expert,

I implemented your advise to solve problem of pock mark defect in SAW and I got success to solve problem. You have mentioned following remedies.

" Make sure that the flux burden (depth) when welding is not excessive.  You should see an occasional "flash" if it is correct.  If it is too deep, the gases cannot escape during flux solidification.  One way to tell is to look at the surface of a cooled piece of flux after welding - if there are holes in it, you might be letting the flux get too deep. "

Can you please share me the article or literature where you found these remedies to pock mark problem in SAW? I would be thankful to you if you can share.

Thanks & Regards,
Mayur
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 10-19-2007 16:13
Every so often, we get porosity with plasma cut pieces, when welding them with FCAW.  The cure for that has been to slightly grind the edges to be welded.  There have been a lot of theories about why that happens, but nothing definitive so far - we just know grinding takes care of it for us.  I'm wondering if that might solve your problem with porosity.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 10-19-2007 17:31
I pulled this up from an old Euroweld page.
"A more basic agglomerated or fused flux consumes higher energy from the arc when compared with a rutile type flux. The liquid slag is cooling before the weld pool.
Where gases from the weld pool cannot escape through the slag, gas pressure can produce slight round "craters" or "pock marks" on the surface of the weld bead. In other words, the slag solidifies before the weld pool and gases do not have a chance to escape. These indications are characteristic of more basic flux or higher density fused flux deposits.

Corrective measures include:
1)  Lower arc voltage to reduce the quantity of gases.
2)  Increase amperage or reduce travel speed to increase the molten pool temperature.
3) Reduce flux height or burden to 25mm maximum.
4) Reduce the amount of small flux particles that increase when using a vacuum/reclamation system by the addition of at least 50% new flux."
Parent - By Mayur (*) Date 11-15-2018 03:27
Dear Expert,

We were facing the same problem of pock mark porosity in SAW welding with fused flux. We also implemented corrective measures same as you have mentioned ( Increase amperage and reduce travel speed to increase the heat input and reduced flux height or burden ). These corrective measures worked perfectly and solved the pock mark porosity problem in welding with fused flux. This is practical approach to solve the problem.

Now, I am looking for any literature or article having information of such pock mark defect problem while welding with fused flux ( cause, problem, remedies, corrective measures ). As you said that you have pulled corrective measures information from old Euroweld page, I would be thankful to you if you can share that old euroweld page or any other literature having information for the same problem of pock mark.

You can share me on mail id:   mayur211092@gmail.com
- By Mayur (*) Date 11-15-2018 03:50
Dear Expert,

We were facing the same problem of pock mark porosity in SAW welding with fused flux. We also implemented corrective measures same as you have mentioned ( Increase amperage and reduce travel speed to increase the heat input and reduced flux height or burden ). These corrective measures worked perfectly and solved the pock mark porosity problem in welding with fused flux. This is practical approach to solve the problem.

Now, I am looking for any literature or article having information of such pock mark defect problem while welding with fused flux ( cause, problem, remedies, corrective measures ). As you said that you have pulled corrective measures information from old Euroweld page, I would be thankful to you if you can share that old euroweld page or any other literature having information for the same problem of pock mark.

You can share me on mail id:   mayur211092@gmail.com
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / SAW porosity

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