Why the big difference? CWI/API

By CWI555

Date 10-22-2007 04:09

A little of both, shortage and deep pockets.

By hogan

Date 10-22-2007 14:24

the api cert is also a much harder test.

By Ariel D C (**)

Date 10-22-2007 16:15

Sorry, I don't agree. If you enjoy reading codes / API recommended practices you have a good chance of passing API exam. You have plenty of time to answer the open book & close book, which is 4hrs each. I think CWI exam will be difficult to pass if you have no practical experience.

By CWI555

Date 10-23-2007 01:05

I think it's relative. Simply reading the codes doesn't guarantee comprehension of what you read. Having pratical experience is not a guarantee either if you haven't spent a lot of time looking at the codes. (I.E. a technician who is used to working to a procedure written by someone else, but hasn't read the code itself for themselves)

1)There there are the folks out there who can look at a real problem and answer it with ease in the work place, who take a test and choke.
2)There are some that can ace test simply by reading the subject matter regardless of experience, but when called upon to do the work, are lost.
3)There are folks who read the code like koresh read the bible. When it comes time to test, the fail when they read per usual.
4)Last but not least, there are people who can both read it and interpret it properly, and do the work. They usually do well on test and in practice.

My first choice would be number 4, but I'd take 10 of number 2 over any number of 1 and 3.

Passing a test means just that, you pass a test. Nothing more. It's what happens when the individual who actually does the work that matters.

By swsweld (****)

Date 10-23-2007 01:48 Edited 10-23-2007 02:46

Gerald, #3 is hilarious!

Today I asked a RT tech that came to shoot our welds the ? why the difference. I knew he had just passed API 653 I think. He didn't think it was harder than CWI; not easier either. I have seen others on here that agreed with Hogans post. Could just be the individual.

BTW the x-rays passed.
First shots for the young man. Very gratifying because I taught him to weld. He listens and does what I ask him. You don't get that from the youth everyday.

Especially your own children :)

By CWI555

Date 10-23-2007 02:04

The young man that passed the test was your son?

As for your RT tech, If he has the the CWI and 653, you can count his days, he won't be around much longer once he gets a taste of the money.

By swsweld (****)

Date 10-23-2007 03:01

You are right about the RT tech he told me today he was offered a job in Ohio but didn't want to spend the winter there. Something about the weather.

That could've been worded better. He is my nephew. Also my brother-in-law helped teach him so credit to him too. But I taught my brother-in-law to weld too.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 10-23-2007 02:06

The API test is to establish a baseline knowledge of specific equipment used in the petroleum industry. You are expected to be more konowledgable in your specific area. Also, there are a limited number of people who will be qualified due to the limited number of opportunities. There are less than 3500 API 653 AST inspectors in the world. There are over 10,000 CWI's. Of the 3500 probably less than 500 are available at any time for work. So the value of that certification is much higher. Plus, there is the "required" experience and knowledge you should have before taking the test. I believe the pass/fail rate of the 510,570 and 653 averaging 50% since the programs started, reflects on the difficulty of the test and the knowledge required to pass the test. Even with the test prep classes like Code West, you still have to have a basic knowledge of the equipment you will be inspecting. A CWI even with a prep class who does not understand basic refinery process piping and equipment will have a hard time passing the test. I do not want anyone to think the CWI test is a walk in the park because it is not. BUt the CWI test is over a large area where the API certs are focused. At this point a API certified inspector with a CWI AND a PRACTICAL construction background can demand big bucks if they are willing to travel and know their way around petroleum construction projects. And that is the big thing. A lot of good inspectors do not have the practical construction background.
BABRT's

By swsweld (****)

Date 10-23-2007 03:11

Was hoping to hear from you on this one dbigkahunna. That makes good sense. The tech went to the prep class at Code West. Is that the best prep class?

By CWI555

Date 10-23-2007 05:04

You are correct about the pass rate, and the limited number of people qualified. Although I don't think it's that it's a hard test, I think it's the later, lack of people taking it who are qualified.

The 510/570 crowd for the most part are good at what they do, but even with them, most are limited to specific aspects. Within the API world is a whole subculture of myriad specialities. A guy working LNG is not necessarily qualified to work a refinery, or vise versa, or off shore, or the many other things API has their hands in and even in those, there are subgroups. Just the RP2X offshore tky UT cert has been pigeon holed to a realm of very finite expertise, then there are the host of RP's that require specific experience to work to. Passing the 510 and 570 is no problem comparatively, the 653 is only a bit more difficult. Where the rubber meets the road are the gurus who work the speciality work. You have to know it even exist to get into it, and at that someone typically has to bring you in. I can equal and exceed the rates for 510/570 without ever hitting a lick for either cert in those specialities that I personally work to. Sooner than later the number of 510 570's will exceed the number of CWI's. With the work load they will have to if the work is going to get done.
With current projected work, I could never leave the LNG/cryo shipping market and retire from it if I wished. There just aren't that many people out there with cryo experience of any kind. Thats not even mentioning the upcoming LHG currently being pushed and researched in some Asian and Euro countries. Since the majority of API's work is focused on higher temp services, I don't see it changing anytime soon since they can't even get the people for it much less the cryo. The energy has to come from somewhere, and the bottom line is there is a finite amount of it available in the world. Should I live a normal life span, I firmly believe I'll see it (LHG and fusion plants). Either way, just LNG will keep me busy for the forseable future.

My two cents worth

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 10-24-2007 12:51

If you can get into Code West, it is the best prep class. But do not expect to learn much from that format. All they teach is the test and how the test is given and the way the questions are phrased. As for the difficulty of the test, I do not agree. If you have been doing inspections and have the required experience AND know how API does the test, it is not that difficult. I do know people who are very knowledgeable about API standards, who take 2-3 times to pas the thing. Some people have a block when it comes to times test. As for speciaty areas of inspection which pay more, I am quite sure if you get into aerospace there are some specialties which will pay quite well. But coming from the petroleum industry. the 510/570/653's make more day in and day out and if you have the constrction background these are now in the 7-800 per day range and most of them ar 1-3 year projects. Most of these are the you gotta know somebody to even know these opportunities are even out there. I disagree on the number of 510-570's passing CWI's simply on available pool of qualified candidates. Welding inspection covers a lot of ground and there are more qualified candidates than work in the petroleum industry. API is trynig to address this looming crisis as the inspectors who are retiring is starting to equal the number entering. Even adding the additional test in September is not expected to increase the number of AI's.
BABRT's

By Joey

Date 10-25-2007 14:07

Believe me I knew Inspectors from China who could not even speak well or not fluent in English but they all have these API certs (510/653/570). One day I asked tips for passing the exam and the answer I received was to read the code book many times. But I guess they passed because they are degree holders which are used in taking tough exams,... they have a higher level of education compare to those high school graduates like me having a lot of experience but struggling to pass the exam.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 10-26-2007 13:18

I have worked with a chineese engineer with all the API certs. While for practical application he was none too swift, but if I needed an engineering answer, he could whip them out. I learned a lot about tank engineering and he learned about field erection. I must admit his swearing vocabulary increased greatly. BUt he always used please swing the fword hammer harder when asked about breakdowns. I do not have an issue with an engineer having the API certs. What I detest is a 25 year old high school graduate with all the certs. Or a RT tech I saw 2 years ago, fresh out of rehab now with API certs. But the job market has a tremendous demand for these certifications and if one can pass the test, then there is pleanty of work. I do wish more of the bridge inspectors would come into the 653 program and get the pipe people out. I have recommended to some API people to accept a bridge inspection background for the 653 program, but so far they are sticking with a petroleum industry background.

By vagabond (***)

Date 10-27-2007 02:47

I'm looking at trying to get the 510 and/or 570 after I get the CWI. But I wonder about the qualifications to take the test. I have the required experience working on pressure piping/vessels etc. BUT the requirement to do supervisory work to me seems excessive. . . .even if you have years in inspection not everyone can be a supervisor, or can they??? This part has got me confused, if anyone could clear this up for me I'd really appreciate it.

By Ariel D C (**)

Date 10-27-2007 03:31

Good choice to take CWI first. I don't remember that supervisory role is a prerequisite for taking API. Focus on getting this CWI first and thereafter think on the next step
which API 510, 570 , 653 is more relevant to your field.

By RANDER

Date 10-27-2007 17:00

There is no requirement for having done supervisory work to obtain API certification. If youve got the years in fab, inspection, operation you are fine. If in doubt----call API to clarify

By vagabond (***)

Date 10-28-2007 17:35

OK just to clarify the situation I went back to the API specs for taking the test and found that on one site (for the 510 or 570 don't remember which) it states 1 yr. experience in supervision inspection. On the other sites for 653 etc. it is written correctly as 1 yr. of supervision OR inspection activities. So I think I'll get my CWI and work at it for a year, I still don't know if I'll like it yet. But I expect I will and then I'll move on getting some other cert's. Maybe I can hook up with a good company and they'll help me pay for the cert's. I really hate to say it but if the competition in inspection is as mediocre as the competition in the industrial sector for pipewelders and pipefitters it shouldn't be hard to shine. I constantly work for companies highly regarded in the industry who pay top wages and per diem and I just don't see the skill level out there. . .it's frustrating and the disregard for quality usually starts in management and trickles down from there. That is another reason I'm moving to inspection. Thanks for the help folks. Be safe out there.