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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Max Heat Imput of Base materials
- - By Taintedhalo (*) Date 11-02-2007 12:29 Edited 11-02-2007 12:32
How do you know what the max heat input of base material is. I know you want the highest Joule's for a PQR but is their max for a the base material. No spacific material, for this question, just looking for a formula kind of like for carbon equivalent.
If anyone can help that would be great.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 11-02-2007 14:24
This is an interesting question, in that, at least in my opinion, and if I understand it correctly, indicates some rather strange but certainly understandable thinking.
The tool of controlling heat inputs is not so much base metal related as it is resulting micro/macrostructure, and therfore corrosion or mechanical property, related. And while the type of base metal under consideration is involved the heat input is tied more closely into these resulting properties of the base metal.
For example, you would not necessarily ignore the fact that you are welding either 316 SS or SA-333 Grade 6 CS, but a 50 k/j max for SAW could be the optimum (or acceptable) for both applications.
So you 'sorta' look past the base metal and ask yourself what it is you expect of the base metal.
And it is not always the highest joules you want to consider. This I believe is code think, driven by code requirements. What is most important is an evaluation of the material you are working with and what you want it to do. Sometimes the heat input needs to be a min(I would be more concerned about reducing grain size in high temp creep applications where large grains are an advantage than I would be for reduced grains for toughness), sometimes a max(as in impact toughness regimes), sometimes a window (as in Duplex SS's). But codes normally think in terms of max's because the heat input requirement is, to my knowledge exclusively related to impact test regimes (though AWS D1.1 certainly runs right up against a concern for non impact regime heat input control without being explicit, by its % controls over amps, volts, and travel speed) wherein for most alloys toughness is improved by keeping grain size down.
Parent - - By tom cooper (**) Date 11-13-2007 15:11
This is a question that has me baffled also. Fortunately, this data is well documented for stainlesses, and some info is out there for T1, P91 and related CrMo's but is hard to find.   I have searched the web back and forth and called many steel mills for this same info for many alloys I commonly work with (41xx & 43xx) and to no avail.  You may want to search out this Forum for posts by "Stephan", as this is his favorite subject and he makes mention of the "t8/5" parameter which may get you to the same place for calculating max heat input. I have found that many European mills have this type of data on their alloys; unfortunately European alloys are not very similar to what i have occasion to work with,

What specific alloy are you requiring info on?

I can tell you this, my search for the same info on 4130 was totally frustrating, so I used a number of 55,000 J/inch for PQR's I am doing right now. That is a number I saw referenced in an article on P91 in "The Fabricator".  This seems to be have been a very good target for me although I have not gotten test results back yet but I can tell it is just right (good flow, no distortion, mag perfectly).  I hopes this helps as a benchmark for what you and others may need to do. PLEASE, if you or anyone knows more about this subject and where to get good numbers, please post. 
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 11-14-2007 15:03
I think at least part of the reason why heat input data based on materials is difficult to locate is because that isn't really the proper approach in most cases. Heat input control is generally more service related.
For example, what is the proper heat input for 316 SS?
It depends.
Is your concern hot cracking?
Microfissuring?
Do you have concerns about Sigma?
Sensitization?
Molybdenum segregation?
How much Mo segregation can you allow?
Is there going to be a solution anneal after welding?
Is it a dissimilar with say, CS (I always laugh about concerns for sensitization in dissimilars with CS)?
What is the restraint on your joints?
What are your thicknesses involved?
Is it cryo?
There are definate rules of thumb to most alloys but these do not replace "Engineering Judgement" that can determine otherwise.
If you impose too low of a heat input you sacrifice productivity when it may be unnecessary.
If you allow too high a heat input you may suffer metallurgical problems.
Not trying to make it sound complicated because its not. You just need to understand your alloy and what it is going to be used for so you can be as efficient as possible.
Parent - By tom cooper (**) Date 11-14-2007 17:04
I agree with everything you say, particularly the "judgement" part. But when you have no prior experience with a new alloy, what do you do? Guess?  Trial & error?  Ask around for advice? Yes, yes and yes. A better way to approach the unknown is to start with a known maximum heat input, so at least you can dial in from there AND THEN use the judgement factors that you have mentioned.  

Since you asked about 316, what I would do if I didn't already know how to handle it is to turn to Chuck Meadows' (God rest his soul) Avesta Manual and look up 316, see the max recommended heat input of 2.0kJ/mm; from that I can back that into some machine settings and go from there.    Like I said, if we didn't know anything about 316, this info just instantly helped us reduce some PQR risk.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Max Heat Imput of Base materials

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