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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Harmonics and Resonances effect on metals
- - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 11-28-2007 14:13
Hello everyone,
I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find information about harmonics and resonances and their effects on diffrent metals.
Im thinking along the lines of how an opera singer can shatter a glass by hitting the right frequency, and im looking for any information I can find about similar effects in various metals like steel, aluminum, titanium ect...
Thank you all for you help
- Clif

 
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 11-28-2007 14:43
The best places I can think of to start would be to get a catalogue of publications from both ASM (The American Society of Materials) and TMS (the Metallurgical Society).
Visit their websites and they'll send you one for free.
Parent - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 11-28-2007 20:23
Awesome, Thank you.
I took a quick look at both sites and I didnt find anything right off the bat, but anything worth doing is never easy.
Im on the right track now at least.
Thanks again
- Clif
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-28-2007 21:38
Harmonics and resonances are well documented, their effects on metals is no so well documented. If I were you, I'd be looking up the particulars of harmonics and resonances then applying the logic to metals.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-29-2007 00:05 Edited 11-29-2007 04:52
As a starting point.
From Mirriam Webster
Harmonics
1 a: overtone; especially : one whose vibration frequency is an integral multiple of that of the fundamental b: a flutelike tone produced on a stringed instrument by touching a vibrating string at a nodal point
2: a component frequency of a complex wave (as of electromagnetic energy) that is an integral multiple of the fundamental frequency
Resonance

Resonance
1 a: the quality or state of being resonant b (1): a vibration of large amplitude in a mechanical or electrical system caused by a relatively small periodic stimulus of the same or nearly the same period as the natural vibration period of the system (2): the state of adjustment that produces resonance in a mechanical or electrical system
_______________________________

//*my understanding of the subject matter, please feel free to chime*//
Resonance in it's simplest form is the oscillation a given particle at maximum amplitude for a specific frequency

For any interaction within a given material, the individual grains/particles would have to be vibrated/excited

Some more on particle motion:
Particles will oscillate in a back and forth fashion returning to their original point of equilibrium in a mechanical sinusoidal wave. Without this equilibrium materials could not hold their shape (constant density). (They are held in balance between attractive and repulsive forces)
This is also known as a sine wave or sinusoidal wave. The transfer of energy occurs via vibration of the particles and the subsequent return to equilibrium of the same creating a simple harmonic motion. whereas if the equilibrium is overcome by a large enough vibration/energy spike it will break the balance between attractive and repulsive forces and therefore lose it's constant density, and come apart.

Picture of speaker vibrating back and forth, to much energy, and it will rip apart, the same go's to the crystals resonant frequency, when it reaches it's peak amplitude, and it's specific frequency, it will break due to the mechanical forces exceeding the balance forces of it's equilibrium.

This works better for materials that are more on the brittle side, or are weak to begin with. From a mechanical stand point, It's take one hell of a vibration to tear it apart.
While that energy level is high, it can and has happened to various metal objects. 

I don't know exactly what your looking for, but there is a start for you.
Parent - - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 11-29-2007 04:03
Gerald,
this is a great relpy and id try and explain what im getting at... but I just got back from writing papers for 4 hours and I dont have a brain cell left to form an intelegent reply.
So when I get a free minute tommrow ill fill in the details.
For now, im going to go pass out...
- Clif
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 11-29-2007 19:18
Excerpted (is it corretly spelled?) form Stephen Elonka's book: "Vibration Isolation and Noise Control", published by Mc Graw Hill:

Natural frequency: is the frequency at which a body vibrates when knocked with an object (example: hit by a hammer blow).
Resonance: the condition in which a body is when vibrating at natural frequency or a multiple of natural frequency.
Resonance, of course, has extremely harmful effects on a body integrity.

Stephen Elonka (Steve), was an editor of Power magazine and writer of technical books and articles until his death in 1983. I met him personally and back in 1977 I've had the privilege of spending a weekend in his home in Charleston, SC.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil 
  
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-30-2007 03:55
Some information on the subject.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/shm2.html#c1
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/reson.html#resdef

I believe I'd have to differ with Mr. Elonkas description in regards to being hit or knocked. The excitation does not have to come from a blow.

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 11-30-2007 21:12
Ok, I looked through that site and all I can find is information about harmonics and resonances  in solids and gasses, does this mean that they dont apply to electricity?
I really need to take some phsyics classes....
-Clif
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-30-2007 22:42
Parent - - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 11-29-2007 20:35
Ok, I have a few minuets so lets see if i can explain this right...
Im wondering what effect imposing a given materials resonance frequency onto a welding or cutting arc would have?
Would it shatter the workpeice or might it be possable to tune it to break up the crystal structure and help in welding or cutting?
Im thinking that by using a pulsed and/or modulated( i think thats the right term) DC current you could use the welding arc sort of like how high frequency is used to start the arc by giving it a path to flow through. By modulated im thinking about music and how you can alter sine waves to produce specific frequencies and piches.
Im aware ultrasonics is used in welding, but my limited understanding of how that works is that the ultrasonics vibrate the crystal structure apart more of a "brute force" mechanical vibration than a fine tuned frequency... but I could very easily be wrong about that. 
Dose any of this make sense, or am I mixing up various properties of sound and energy?
Either way, Thank you all for your insight
-Clif
Parent - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 12-01-2007 15:00
SRE in California produces vibratory stress relief equipment.  They have equipment that really works in some way or another.  I have personally seen their wquipment reduce the power requirements in a Jig Boring operation.  I have seen it reduce the warpage due to weld shrinkage.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 11-29-2007 21:28
I used to perform natural frequency testing on fan impellers. This was done to assure that the operating frequency or blade pass frequency did not match up with the natural frequency of the impeller. The failures due to natural frequency were sometimes drastic.

Gerald
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 11-29-2007 22:59
Just a curious question, pipewelder. Who was the fans' manufacturer? Buffalo Forge, American Blowers, Robinson, etc?
Giovanni S. Crisi
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 11-30-2007 13:17
Zurn/Clarage
Parent - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 12-01-2007 16:17
Cwi555, your right I was in a rush when I read through the page and I didnt see it at first.

Pipewelder, would you know of anywhere that would have a chart or a list of natural frequencies?

-Clif
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Harmonics and Resonances effect on metals

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