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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / 1104 vs. D1.1
- - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-02-2007 14:23
i herad that 1104 is a harder code than D1.1 what i mean by that is D1.1 is more exact in what it states rather than 1104 but the true thing is which cwi test is harder i know D1.1 is alot more more information. but my thing is i have just become a QC inspector and my past experience is as a structual fitter so i think i would catch d1.1 better but yet my boss wants me to go for 1104. i have never actually sat down and went through either book. but i know d1.1 is a helluva lot bigger but is that a problem when it comes to taking the test. and would the study material be different than the 1104 materail. i know i need the A3.0 but thats as far as i got as far as material needed for the test does anyone out there have any info on this subject as to the difference in the test and what material i would need for each of them. cause as i figure it i have alot of thinking to do i really want to stay in this line of work but i have a desion to make. maybe some of you that been in the feild for awhile can lend a hand.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-02-2007 14:37
Brent,

If you use the search function on this forum you will find dozens of threads asking questions similar to yours. (just type in CWI Prep or CWI Study) There will be very good data on study materials for both tests... And yes there are a good number of materials that will serve you well to study no matter which test.

Here is the big caution for you.....  Do not rush yourself here!

You said that you...  "...have never actually sat down and went through either book."

Take your time and make this at least a 1 year plan for yourself.

To pass the CWI exam (either book) you need to be an expert in navigating that code book.. You also need to be proficient in navigating any code book..(in order to succseed in part B)

After you spend many months becomming familliar with your chosen code book, then see if your boss will shell out for the full week seminar with the test on the last day..... The seminar is a real eye opener for most folks... as is the test itself.
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-02-2007 14:49
yeah the company will pay for my exam but from the date of hire they said i have to get my cwi in 6 months and i was a structual fitter so i wanna lean towards d1.1 cause its structual and thats where i am comfortable. but they want me to go 1104 cause its a smaller book but some people said 1104 is harder. so i'm not sure.
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 12-02-2007 17:40
Brent, the goal is to pass the CWI exam. If you think you have a better chance with D1.1 you should use that code. However, your employer is paying for the exam so they have a say in this decision. What does the company do? If steel then they should want you to use D1.1. If pipe then 1104. As Lawrence stated, you need to be proficient in navigating and interpreting a code to pass this part of the exam. Because 1104 is a smaller book does not mean you will have a better chance to pass it. You can find lots of valuable info on materials and tips for the test on the forum using the search feature and the AWS website certification category and check out the CWI body of knowledge.

Unless your company is involved in pipe work I see no reason to go with 1104. I took 1104 for my test because it was much smaller than D1.1 but I had field experience in both steel and pipe, more in pipe.

Several members of this forum have recently passed the test and many seasoned inspectors here are willing to help, use the forum to assist you. All advise will include study, study, study...
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 12-02-2007 22:52
I too was a structural fitter before passing my CWI exam, I studied the D1.1 for a couple months before the exam. if you take out the commentaries, annexes, tables and figures D1.1 is comparable in size but with a much better way of navigating through it! the 1104 exam also has 60 questions compared to 46 for D1.1.
I would definitely go with what your more comfortable with!
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-03-2007 12:31
so D1.1 has only 46 qeustions what exactly would i need to study i figured i would ask being that you took that particular test. and i also have heard that D1.1 is a more straight forward book rather than 1104 being kinda like you have to firure certain things out like they dont say what they mean exactly. but D1.1 does say everything word for word. just alot bigger what do you think of D1.1 test and how nitpicking are the questions?
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 12-03-2007 18:02
you need to read the whole book and commentaries and annexes. and you need to be able to find anything in it in under 2 minutes. it is straight forward but you need to study everything so you can find anything in it fast! some of the questions ask all of above or none of above, those were the hardest as you need to look for 3-4 different answers! if you dont already know alot of the code you will probably have a hard time passing.
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 12-02-2007 23:45
My advice is this, go with what you are comfortable with and what is relevant to your field (Or the field you want to be in). Search the forum as there are many threads posted by people in the same situation as yourself.  A smaller code book does not necessarily make an exam easier.  If I was giving an exam and had 20 pages to pick the questions from instead of 100 I would dig for the most obscure answers and twist every question I could to create a similarly challenging test.  Having recently taken the test to 1104 I can tell you that most of the additional questions came from the appendices.  Either way be very familiar with the code you will be using on the exam as well as the "Code" AWS gives you for the practical portion.  Do not waste time highlighting the Part B code book that they sent you,  They will give you a fresh one at the test.  (I didnt ask but maybe they let you use yours)

I wonder why your company wants you to use a code just because it is smaller.  Do they want a CWI for PR or a CWI that can help them grow and maintain a profitable business with a reputation for QUALITY? (Im assuming a structural company because of your post)

Like I said search the forum as this has been discussed several times. 

Good luck on the test
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-03-2007 12:34 Edited 12-03-2007 13:53
yeah everything we do is steel. only piping is flowlines and such. mostly framing, building derricks, and rig barges. not much piping except mudd pumps, and and a few other high pressure lines but the rest are pretty much flow lines. what cha think?
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 12-03-2007 14:04
imo the main reason to use d1.1 is that it is so well indexed.
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-03-2007 16:54
yeah the only thing that worries me about D1.1 is alot more pages to have to flip through during test
Parent - - By pax23 (**) Date 12-03-2007 18:33
If you sit down prior to the test and become familiar with where everything is in the D1.1 code then you will not need to flip through a lot of pages. For example, you get a test question that deals with joint fitup for a fillet weld where the separation at the root opening of the joint is measured at 1/8". You don't have to know the answer; you just need to know where to go. This is too detailed for Chapter 1, Chapter 2 is design so no it won't be there, Chapter 3 is prequalified WPS so no again, Chapter 4 is qualifying procedures again no, Chapter 5 is fabrication...bingo. The text portion of Chapter 5 is only 24 pages long. Somewhere in those 24 pages will be your answer, but you spent 2 months scanning through the code, and you remember the sections on tolerances and fitup are near the back of Chapter 5....like 5.20 or on, so you flip to near the end of Chapter 5. Section 5.20 (Splices in Cyclically Loaded Structures) no, Section 5.21 (Control of Distortion and Shrinkage) no, Section 5.22 (Tolerance of Joint Dimensions) there it is. So you start reading through it quickly and before you finishing the first subsection of 5.22 you have your answer. If you are properly prepared for the test, it should take about a minute or less to read the question and find the answer in the code.

Memorize and be very familiar with the structure of the code and where everything is. Also understand how the code is used. Understand that Chapter 2 (Design) is broken into four parts depending on member shape and the type of loading. Understand that production inspection criteria is in Section 6, Part C and that procedure test acceptance criteria is in Section 4, Part B. You DO NOT need to memorize what the acceptance criteria is for either, only where in the code it is located.

A lot of the information and questions will lead you to several figures and tables. Be very familiar with how to read these tables. For example, it takes a few minutes for most individuals to understand how Table 4.1 must be used; it is not intuitive for everyone. Once you unlock that initial understanding of how to use that table, then it gives up its information rather easily. You do not want to be spending time during the test trying to understand how a table is setup; this should definitely be done prior to the test. There are several other tables and figures just the same. In other words, spend extra time studying the complex tables and figures to determine how to use them.
Parent - By Archorp_01 Date 01-19-2017 18:48
Thank you so much for your complete and very explicative answer, it has helped me a lot to choose what code book will use to take my exam. Thank you sir.
Parent - - By pax23 (**) Date 12-03-2007 18:37
Test to whichever code you are more familiar with. If neither, then test to whichever code you will likely use more often in your job. The time you take studying the code prior to the test can used in your real life job.

If your boss insists that you test to a code you are not familiar with and will rarely or never use in your real job then I guess you have to do what the boss man says, but chances are with orders like that he may not be the boss man very long.
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-03-2007 20:12
yeah they just seem to want me to take 1104 " would you rather flip through a book that has 75 pages or 600 pages" so i guess they just want me to get my cwi no matter which one it is but let me ask this does it matter which one i get or will it be looked at any different in the employers eyes if i were to go and get a job somewhere else or is it as they say a cwi is a cwi i could get 1104 now and just get d1.1 later after a lil more experience under my belt
Parent - - By pax23 (**) Date 12-03-2007 20:29
It should not matter what code you test on, but some employers can make a big deal about it. If may never be a problem for you but you cannot rule out the possibility that somewhere down the line an employer decides you tested to the "wrong" code and that you are not acceptable for his team or project. There is no way around that even though AWS has often stated that a CWI is not limited to code work matching the code test he took.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-03-2007 20:41
Right

The Stamp and Card do not disclose which test you took.

However, some employers (especially on the west coast) are asking for endorcements (test score etc.) proving you were examined on the code of their choice.

I suppose in a free market there is nothing wrong with an employer specifying what they want.... Not that it PROVES that somebody will be a good structural inspector because they tested on D1.1...

On the other hand... if employers insist on multiple endorcements just think how much more ca$h AW$ will make testing inspectors to multiple code endorcements....  In some regions I think this is already occuring.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-03-2007 21:23
You didn't read Ctacker's response closely.

As he says, none of the questions will be answered looking through the Annex or commentary of D1.1. That reduces the number of pages to about 260. Considering the number figures in D1.1 the number of pages is further reduced. D1.1 provides the user with a table of contents, a listing of tables and figures, and an index, to make navigation through D1.1 relatively easy. Then again, some people would rather thumb through their copy of 1104 to find their answers without the aids offered by D1.1.

To each their own.

As a consultant that does depend on the help of other CWIs when my work load is too much for me to handle, I can tell you that I ask what examination was passed when they took the CWI. I will not send someone that passed the API 1104 on a project that requires D1.1. There are too many differences between them. My clients expect the CWI to be conversant with the appropriate code when they arrive on the site. If you have a work history that includes extensive use of D1.1, I will consider waiving the D1.1 open book examination.

However, based on some of the questions asked in this forum, it is usually pretty clear which people took the API or AWS open book examination. My statement is not mean to be offensive to anyone, it is simply a statement of fact. It stands to reason that those individuals that take the API open book examination and work in that pipe line industry should be more conversant with 1104 than someone that took the D1.1 open book examination and works in the structural steel industry or vice versa.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-03-2007 22:00
yeah i guess my boss figures that since i was a structual fitter i already have an edge on that but what he doesnt realize is there is no code to fitting just the prints and a few tricks up my sleeve that make it a lil easier. but i will take the 1104 cause thats what the boss whats but later i will get the d1.1 cause thats where i am comfortable. and i'll pay out my pocket if i have too. like it was mentioned earlier some ppl are looking at what code was tested on so i'll be ready for whatever they want pipe or structual. not saying i can do it in a week but a few years and i should be ready at 31 yrs old i think i am making the best desion i can make to further my career. what ya'll think fellas
Parent - - By swsweld (****) Date 12-04-2007 05:20
Looking on the bright side; you will get exposure to 1104 for the exam. Then you will use D1.1 at work. That works. During my seminar we were told there would be no questions on the appendixes on 1104. So naturally I didn't spend much time studying that. Since they increased the questions from 46 to 60 I guess they added questions from the appendixes. Our instructor either didn't know or intentionally threw us a curve ball. That instructor has been a hot button topic lately. Regardless I should have studied 1104 cover to cover. Good luck on the venture.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 12-05-2007 17:02
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the jist of this thread, and maybe I'm being unreasonable, but it seems to me the test to take is the one you're gonna use. Never mind which one is easier or more comfortable. We already have too many CWI's out there that 'just passed the test'. I'm sure most in this forum have met many of them. And maybe even cleaned up their messes.
If you're gonna use both of them equally then go with the one your comfortable with. If you're equally comfortable, and will use them equally, then go with the easiest one.
Seems to me if you have desire to be a top notch CWI like some the fellas in here like Al and Gerald (and others), then looking for the easy route may not be the best choice. 
On the other hand, I'm sure Gerald and Al will be glad to aquire a tidy sum to clean up the messes of those that 'just passed'. Just kiddin guys.
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-07-2007 14:07
well i am not looking for the easy way out. i am going to have to test at whatever my boss wants me to test on being that the company is springing for it. but after i get a lil more experience in the feild i will take the d1.1 cause thats where i am comfortable. so i feel like it is happening like this for a reason. being a pipeline inspector and building structual is kinda off to me. so i will get the experience in both so i am not blind to what ever comes my way in the future. cause i can never go on a job saying i am a cwi and not know what the hell is going on. i just couldnt go tell someone that they are messing up on that vessel, when i really dont know. but if i go on a production platform. i can tell you if your 1/4" off from here to there. it just may take a lil time to get where i want to get in this feild. but i plan on staying, so i guess whatever test the boss wants me to test in thats what i will test in.
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 12-08-2007 20:33
[deleted]
Parent - - By amr Date 12-09-2007 00:44
dear sir , i have api 1104 and i think that d1.1 more diffcullt than api 1104 , actualy im cawi , and im looking for cwi .
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 12-11-2007 14:32
Thats funny how companies want you to get your CWI within a 6 month time period.  My company also wanted me to get mine within 6 months.  I wonder why that is?
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-11-2007 16:49
i have no idea why that is. i guess they figure that everyone in the world can figure it out in 6 months. but yet i here just about everyone here on the forum say study for at least 1 year before you decide to test. so you went in 6 months too. did you pass? if so which one did you go for 1104 or d1.1
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 12-11-2007 17:00
I took the D1.1 because most of the things we build here are for structural purposes.  I passed, but it was one of the hardest tests I've ever had to take in my life and I've taken a lot of tests!  This sucker is no joke and of the 3 tests you have to take I'd say the code portion would be the hardest.  If you have a strong welding background the other two tests should come easier for some people.  I scored very high on all my practice code tests, but it did not show for the real one.lol  So get yourself a code book of choice and ask a lot of questions on here for a while.
Parent - - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-11-2007 17:07
yeah well i was a structual fitter, with knowledge of welding and have a keen eye for welds, as far as the VT goes, i know what should be and what should not be excepted. i just never had to use a code before. how many questions did you get out of the welding inspectors temanogly book. and what other books did you have to use?
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 12-11-2007 17:34
I think that one has like 120 questions.
Parent - By crazycajun (**) Date 12-11-2007 22:48
are the questions from off the wall things or they common practice things used everyday in the field. cause i just ordered the book. ( welding inspector term)
Parent - - By David Lee (*) Date 12-16-2007 02:22
My exam was D1.1. remmeber this! chapter 1 introduction, ch2 design of welded connections. ch3 prequalification, ch4 qualification.
ch5 fabrication, ch6 inspection. I had 1 question from ch1, 2 from ch2, the rest came from 3,4,5,and 6.
Research the WIT program you will need it. Again take your time.
Parent - - By metal_monger Date 12-16-2007 02:55
[deleted]
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-16-2007 16:37
crazycajun;

Among the goals of the CWI training and examinations are to reinforce the concept that "normal shop practice" isn't the same as "good shop practice". Many of the things you and I have seen done in the shop are not "good practice" from a metallurgical sense or based on code requirements.

Many CWI candidates make the fateful statement "that's not how we do it in our shop", and that's when the rest of the class has a good belly laugh. Hopefully you will learn what good practice is and what good shop practice isn't by studying the materials available from AWS. Those candidates that answer the examination questions based solely on their shop experience are most likely going to fail the examinations. You need to read and study the AWS material and answer the questions based on the AWS literature.

The Farm Code FC-2002 is a collection of observations we (the collective forum members) have seen during our careers as welders and inspectors. They are entertaining, but the sad truth is that we have seen many these "shop practices" in use at one time or another. In most of the cases I've encountered, the welder was not intentionally acting with malice, he/she was performing what they considered to be "normal shop practice" and it was unfortunately based on misinformation or ignorance.

Good luck - Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / 1104 vs. D1.1

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