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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / welder performance test for pipe tack weld
- - By mickdale (*) Date 12-06-2007 14:47
been asked to set up qualification test for pipe fitters ROOT tacks of pipework.
this is a requirement of ASME B31/3.
always used bridging tacks previously but we are thinking of going over to root as well.

do i get 4 tacks @ 90 degrees in the root of a pipe prep and NDT (xray? MPI? DPI?)
do all the essential variables (thickness, diameter etc) still apply in ASME IX

what about stainless pipe - how would they purge?

any advice greatly appreciated
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 12-06-2007 15:45
My take would be to have them run a 2" coupon all the way out. 2" gets your diameters down (< 2 7/8" OD gets you down to 1" OD, and you don't care about deposit thickness for tackers). You'll probalby need to test em 6G since tacking is inevitably in position.
Shoot it or bend it either one. Then do it again with SS. Seal up the ends and purge. The coupon will be really small of course so turn the purge way way down when welding. Especially when closing the root.
Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 12-08-2007 12:08
Mickdale,
Js55 has given sound advice if you decide to pursue the root tacks but I would strongly recommend you stick with bridge tacking. I spent 15 years as a coded pipe welder prior to becoming a CWI and having one guy root tacking and a different guy welding can lead to all sorts of dramas. A pipe welders reputation and livelihood depends on their ability to produce acceptable welds and if they have got "dodgy" tacks that they are not happy with they are not going to be keen on even welding the joint. What happens if you have excess pen or a missed edge on one of the tacks and the weld fails RT, it is the welder who cops the blame, not the person who put in the tacks. With stainless it is even less preferable due to the dramas of making sure you have sufficient purge whilst tacking.
Is there a specific reason why you are wanting to change from bridge tacking to root tacking ?
In the southern hemisphere we use "bullets" almost everywhere for tacking, 1/2" pieces of 1/4" round bar dropped in the prep and tacked either side. The added advantage with this is no purge is required for tacking your stainless.
Hope that helps,
Regards,
Shane 
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 12-08-2007 20:23
[deleted]
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 12-10-2007 14:57
I don't think there is anything wrong with what the poster is intending. We did the very same thing for years in a combined power (31.1) process (31.3) vessel (Section VIII) shop. He posted it as a question for B31.3 which generally means more standard wall stuff. Bridge tacking is especially useful on heavy walls, where you can lay on some wazoo tacks and never touch the J or C-Bore, for example, but can be unproductive for thinner walls, which are predominantly V's, if you have guys that are capable of decent tacks. Especially using bar stock as opposed to bridging with say GMAW short circuit, another good method of bridging.
The question is, are the guys capable? And if they aren't qualified you have to completely remove the tacks.
We had some dayum fine tackers in our shop, and a quick visual by the welders in the ID would alert them if they had some issue of concern.
Another thing is, and I've posted this in here before, there is no point in running GTAW at say 9:00, or generally what is considered uphill. If they roll over the top and essentially run the root downhill (make sure your qual your guys for that if you go beyond 15deg) you can crank up the heat to 190 to as much as 225 (a technique that to my knowledge was initiated by nuke welders in a couple of Salt Lake area power shops about 30 years ago), and when you run across the tacks you can completely burn through them oscillating a little wider and then the welder doesn't need to worry.
We had guys in our shop do this very method and maintain less than 1% reject rates.
And with practice, when you look on the ID of the root you cannot even tell where the tack was. The advantage here is the welder can light up on a pipe and run the whole root without stopping, as opposed to having to stop and grind out bridges.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 12-10-2007 15:00
One other point to be made though, if your runnin GMAW roots (which is probbably mos tlikely on carbon steel) remember you aren't going to be able to burn through so your tackers have to be even better or the welders are grinding it out anyway, the usual technique being you run two quarters opposite and then grind out all four tacks at the same time.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 12-10-2007 15:13
js55,
Have to agree with dbigkahunna,
If you are going to be putting in root tacks that are part of the weld then you need to sit exactly the same test as the pipewelders.
Regards,
Shane
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 12-10-2007 16:16
Well, if they're tiggin they're takin a tig test, as welder would do if all you needed was tig. There is no point in givin em a stick, mig, fluxcore, subarc, or combo test if all they're gonna be doin is tig tacks?
If they're mig tackin then you give em a mig test.
Not sure what the test em like welders is really all about, but you test for need and application.
You don't test FCAW guys on SAW. You don't test carbon guys on stainless. So why would you overtest here? If thats the meaning. I'm not sure.
Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 12-10-2007 23:00
js55,
The original poster asked if he could put 4 tacks in a pipe and test those and that would enable the person to place root tacks in a pipe in production. What I am saying is no, they would have to sit the full 6G GTAW weld test the same as the welders in order to qualify for putting root tacks in production,
Regards,
Shane
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / welder performance test for pipe tack weld

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