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Up Topic Welders and Inspectors / Education & Training / Backing Bar Removal? What method?
- - By GonzoWeld (*) Date 12-10-2007 01:45
The backing bar that I used on my plate test how should I remove it ? Arc-Gouging , Chisel and Big Hammer or grind it off which method is best ? Thanks For your help!
Parent - By TANKIE (*) Date 12-10-2007 02:29
ARC GOUGEN WILL BE YOUR QUICKEST AND EASYEST BET!!
Parent - By fbrieden (***) Date 12-10-2007 03:43
Shouldn't the certifying person/agency be responsible for that operation?
Parent - - By Goose-em (**) Date 12-12-2007 11:57
Perhaps you need to understand how a qualification test works.  The test coupons should already be prepared with a bevel.  They should provide you with a backer bar.  You set it up and tack it together.  You then weld up the root pass, you are not typically not allowed to use a grinder.  You then weld up the rest of the test.  Once you have completed the test coupon you give the completed test to the testing authority and they perform a visual examination.  They are looking for defects, porosity, undercut, underfill, overfill, anything that falls outside the acceptance criteria listed in the weding code they are using.

Assuming it passes visual inspection the test person will then section the test and perform whatever tests are required by said code.  This can include, bends, tensiles, macroetch, etc.  The testing authority will remove the backer bar, at least this is the common practice.  I would never recomend arc gouging as a suitable removal method as it adds heat to the part and heat is your enemy.  Do not quench the test piece to cool it down, let it slow cool.  Why?  Better chance that it wont break when they bend it.  Backer bar can usually be removed easily after sectioning by simply placeing it in a vice and twisteing it off using a large wrench.  If this fails I like to machine the backer off.
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 12-14-2007 03:24
I remove the backing bars after cutting the straps. It is only 3/8, 3/4, or 1 1/2 wide straps usually and therefore not as big of a task as it would be as removing the whole bar. I put it in a vise and use a grinder.
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 12-14-2007 04:58
What ever is easiest for you if given that option. Not all test booths are created equal. I've had to drag the material (pipe and plate) out of the racks, cut with torch or saw, prep... do everything including run the "ol one-armed johnny" to bend. This has happened on more than once. The reason I was given, was to see if you could work in a safe methodical manor and familiarity with the basic tools of the trade, and if the visual was in that gray area, a klutz could be "looked out". Looking back on it (of course it sux to have all that x-tra sweat involved. We don't always have the luxury of when a job is NECESSARY!) I think it is a fair test that allows an employer to weed out future slackers. Years later, I've done it myself. We were paying xlnt wages, busy and did not have the time for coupon prep or extensive interviews.
As far as method of removal goes, I've used all methods possible and can't ever recall seeing one fail mysteriously. There was always an identifiable defect. Never say never though...Good luck on your test.
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 12-14-2007 13:37 Edited 12-14-2007 16:02
i machine mine off. just run through the center where the root is
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-14-2007 16:00
I leave the backing bar on the coupon and go ahead and cut the 3/8" strips out of it, then take and turn those 3/8" strips upside down and turn the grinder wheel on edge and grind into the backing bar just at the edges of where the root is fused...this way you are only grinding about a 3/8 x 3/8 area...no big deal and it is pretty quick...just be careful of the grinder and make sure the guards are used.
Parent - - By GonzoWeld (*) Date 12-14-2007 16:45
Thank You for that reply! Are you suggesting that on a 3/8" plate test that you should only cut 3/8" wide coupons to do the bend test with? Or should it be wider? Thanks
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 12-14-2007 16:53
the code has specific requirements for the size of bend test specimens
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-14-2007 18:51
Gonzo

I'm betting John is explaining an unlimited thickness bend test that requires 3/8" wide, full thickness coupons bent sideways.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-16-2007 15:07
Yes Lar, I was referring to the unlimited test plate...is ther any other...J/K
I'm pretty sure that in D1.1:2006 they added side bends for 3/8 test plates also(not just root and face bends)....I don't have my copy of D1.1 here at home, so look it up in the Tables shown in Section 4.
Parent - - By David Lee (*) Date 12-17-2007 01:04
The way I do it is to cut the straps put the piece in a vise and us a torch to remove the unfusied portion of the baking bar, then grind off the remainder where the joint root is. This way you will not tear the base metal or the weld metal at the joint root by twisting the backing off.
Also I have a question, About the use of a grinder while testing. It seems to be a common practice not to use one while qualifying.
I dont recall a restriction on this in D1.1. Is there such and where is it ?
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 12-17-2007 01:40
I don't believe there is a restriction on grinding in D1.1 but my book is at work and i cant verify!
If your just testing welder performance you can run a 3" backing and x-ray without removing the bar!
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-17-2007 11:19
David,
D1.1 does not prohibit grinder usage during a welder performance test, however the mfg/contractor can impose those restrictions if they want, and many do.

When I'm testing our welders, I like to ask them to not use the grinder, but if they get into a spot where they feel they need to grind something, to let me see it and I'll make the call. As many have already said, some welders use the grinder as a crutch to get through a test. I don't think that is a true test of a welder's abilities, so I limit the use during testing. I don't stand and hover over the welder's shoulder during a test, I'll watch the first couple or three passes to make sure they can handle the root and then just come around and check on them periodically after that. the main reaason tht I observe the root going in to make sure that the welder doesn't spend a couple hours on a test that will fail due to problems placing the root in.
Up Topic Welders and Inspectors / Education & Training / Backing Bar Removal? What method?

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