An A&P working toward D17.1??

By dickhudgins Date 12-15-2007 03:19

I 've been an A&P/IA working in the general aviation/corporate field for about 12 years. Got a good tig setup a couple of years back, mainly for automotive and hobby work, and I've become pretty good with steel and CRES (my aluminum needs more practice). What exactly would it take for me to pass D17.1 certification? I'm working for an FAA certified repair station right now, and my employer doesn't show much interest in doing any welding jobs in-house. They spend big bucks sending things out because of "liability" (really, they just don't know much about metals or welding in general).

Not that I would ever want to change jobs, but I would like to have that skill in case things change, and I need to find work. There is really no one in my area doing any aviation welding, but everyone asks about it. I see the potential to make some side money doing basic things like simple exhaust repairs. When I ask the FAA about it, they don't have a clue, and the FAR's are as clear as mud when it comes to who can do welding on aircraft components and who can't. Any advice?

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 12-15-2007 04:49 Edited 12-15-2007 04:54

Welcome to the Forum Dick

You said; "When I ask the FAA about it, they don't have a clue" and "clear as mud" You hit the nail on the head.

The FAA has nothing to do with D17 or any other welding code for that matter.

If you are an A&P (AMT) you can sign off work, it really is that simple. Does that make any sense? Heck no. But that's the way it is... Scary huh?

Major players usually develop some sort of performance quals, some even use D17 or 2219.

Being a contractor yourself and using D17 to codify your buisness would be a pretty expensive proposition. As it would require you to qualify all procedures for all materials by testing. No big deal if you have your own metallurgy lab, otherwise a pretty spendy proposition.

Aviation repair welding is very complex........ You should not even consider welding an aircraft componant unless you have a class 1 repair doccument for welding approved by the OEM that goes all the way down to specific part number. Then you better be sure you have capability for any pre-weld annealing, post weld stress relief etc. Repair filler metals are not always the same fillers used to originally join the part... Who will make your filler metal decisions? Are you ready to stand personally for the liability for such decisions?

I was the welding instructor for the largest airline in the world .... I won't strike an arc on an aircraft componant on my own authority.... No repair work without full repair doccumentation. Not even a bracket.

My advice is conservative.... Continue to get good at welding... Let somebody else worry about testing you, getting you certified and providing the paperwork......... You might be able to bring in some coin on the side... but you better have your ducks in a row.

By dickhudgins Date 12-15-2007 05:07

Thanks for the info. It is pretty much a no-man's land when you talk welding repairs on any aircraft part. OEM's give lots of info, but always go one step short of giving an A&P the explicit go-ahead to repair an exhaust or do a simple patch on a recip engine truss mount. For example, Cessna's Caravan 208 Series structural repair manual says what process to use on a truss mount, and some in depth information as to the materials and repair limits, but they leave it at that. Generally, you never see statements saying that a certain repair must be done by personnel qualified to a certain spec. Not very helpful. And an FAA inspector once outright told me that "the FAR's are written as vaguely as possible, so we can make them mean what we want them to mean in a court of law."

I had a semester of gas welding at Embry-Riddle, and a few days of TIG orientation, but the rest I've learned on my own after reading Richard Finch's books and making lots of scrap. I've done quite a bit of tooling fabrication around the shop as practice, and I'm happy to just mess with cars and do some metalshaping. I was mainly wondering about the feasibility of certification. Thanks for the input!

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 12-15-2007 06:59

Dick basically if you have to make a move in the future having those skills could be an asset to land you the job. I work for a manufacture ....Some of the service centers around the airport still bring us stuff to do for them as "Favors".....but a lot of times they call me or one of my coworkers to handle it for them in their hanger for very nice $$$$. I just make sure their repair station docs are in order and get faxes in if need be.....but their inspectors buy it off and I walk away with some xtra spending money. But Lawrence is right on the money ...as far as the FAA is concerned any body can weld on whatever as long as it gets the stamp......scary scary scary.

My company spent a very large sum on my certs for D17.1....if someone truly has a need for the work to be done in their house they will spend the same on you to meet their needs. If you got a good sheet metal background as well I know a couple of places that would gladly like to see a resume. And both do quite a bit of welding in house with properly qualified procedures.

Best Regards
Tommy

By Ringo

Date 12-17-2007 16:54

I also work for a FAA repair station as a CWI/Powerplant license.We test our welders in house and send the test plates out to a AWS certified test facility for X-ray.They send back the X-ray (Accept or Reject),and we give the welders a in-house certification to weld.We develop our own welding procedures using actual aircraft parts (Embrear 145's).its pretty cut and dry just figure out your thickness range and base metal and practice till you can pass a plate test.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 12-18-2007 09:08

another aside.....if your going to do a (repair) on a non welded part make sure someone writes an EIAR with modification center certs in place.....that way your butt is covered and its on the inspector or engineering authority that wrote the EIAR. When I go in to do what they cannot do I make absolutely sure that they are buying off all liability.