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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / ASTM A513 DOM
- - By ctacker (****) Date 12-19-2007 15:37
I have a job coming up with A513 DOM tube welded to A514 plate, My QA manager says we have to modify an existing WPS to fit, We have WPS's for A514 to same, A514 to A148 and A36 to A514, I say we need to qualify a PQR for A513 to A514. am i right or wrong?
any feedback would be appreciated!
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 12-19-2007 16:02
yes. i had to do the same thing.
Parent - By Bill M (***) Date 12-19-2007 17:12
If you are working in ASME Sect IX-

You said you have a PQR for A36 to A514.  Thats a P1, group 1 to A514.

What grade A513 are you using?  If it is 1008, 1010, or 1015 grade it is also a P1 group 1.

You would already have a supporting PQR for joining the A513 to A514 materials.
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 12-19-2007 18:09 Edited 12-19-2007 19:14
You forgot to mention the code your working too.  If your working with D1.1 i'd have to say yes you need to qualify a new WPS.  No sooner then i read your post i just found out we're using A513 DOM rectangle tubes that i now have to qualify a procedure for.  What is the DOM?  On my material specs it only says A513 DOM it gives no grade. Or is the DOM a certain grade? Here's an interesting link with A513 and there is a ton of them.  What does it mean by it covers 1018 and 1008 and 4130 etc etc?
http://www.principalmetals.com/specifications/step2tokens.asp?Tokens=a513
Parent - - By waynekoe (**) Date 12-19-2007 20:29
Searching thru the web I found that DOM is Drawn Over Mandrel
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 12-19-2007 20:55
Cool, Thanks man!!
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 12-20-2007 01:43
the code i am working to, and i quote "standard T1 welding practices" it is for some earthmoving equipment so I'm leaning toward D14.3 and yes, DOM is "drawn over mandrel" and i dont think it falls under P1. before i became inspector we did a simular job with the same steel, our supposed CWI (who i found out never passed his exam) wrote a WPS using A143 to A514 and the customer was happy because he tripled his next order. I am still thinking i need to have a PQR & WPS
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-20-2007 02:17
When there is no clear definition of a specific welding standard (or code) in the purchase order or other contract documents, I use AWS B2.1 as my fall back position.

It lists the A513 as a M1 and A514 as a M11B, so you would need to qualify a WPS using a M1 to M11B base metal to provide a sound basis of performing the production welding. For all practical purposes the AWS B2.1 M numbers are closely correlated to ASME P and S numbers, i.e., a M1 base metal will be listed as a P number or S number in ASME Section IX if it is "recognized" by ASME as a listed material.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By arrowside (**) Date 12-20-2007 02:23
Just a quick "heads up" with DOM. Though I've never worked with rectangular DOM, I do however have experience with DOM tube, which can vary pretty good on the wall thickness. I have a friend who built a cage for an IHRA car and he got burned when it didn't pass tech because he took the spec on it for granted and didn't measure it himself. The inspector brought an ultrasound to his shop and showed him that the wall was thinner than the man. said it was. The cage was junk.
Parent - - By Bill M (***) Date 12-20-2007 14:24
Al,
(I do not have a copy of AWS B2.1 here)

So in accordance with the B2.1 code, am I correct then that since he said he has a WPS to support welding A36 to A514 , he already has a PQR to support a WPS to join A513 to A514?

To comment on what Arrowside mentioned-
Thats surprising to hear that the A513 DOM stock was found undersize from the as ordered size.  The A513 spec for type 5 (mandrel drawn) tubing has some very tight dimensional tolerances (tight like three place decimal -single digit type).  The A513 type 1 thru 4 are not DOM but AWHR (As Welded Hot Rolled).  These types of 513 tubing have looser dimensional tolerance allowances.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-21-2007 01:38 Edited 12-21-2007 01:40
Hello Bill;

You hit the nail on the head.

"I have a job coming up with A513 DOM tube welded to A514 plate, My QA manager says we have to modify an existing WPS to fit, We have WPS's for A514 to same, A514 to A148 and A36 to A514, I say we need to qualify a PQR for A513 to A514. am i right or wrong?
any feedback would be appreciated!"

Currently Qualified:
A514 to A514     M11B to M11B
A514 to A148       M11B to M4
A514 to A36         M11B to M1

Needs to be qualified for:
A513 to A514       M1 to 11B

So, the A514 to A36 also qualifies the A513 to A514 unless impact toughness is a requirement.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 12-21-2007 05:56
Thanks Al, I was also able to talk him into buying me buying me B2.1 because of your post!
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-21-2007 18:45
I'm sure AWS will appreciate the money.

I use B2.1 for a multitude of applications where the typical welding standards are not referenced or doesn't apply. A useful tool to have in my bucket of tricks.

Happy Holiday and Merry Christmas.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 12-21-2007 18:52
Ross, send Al a commision check, if it wasn't for him I wouldn't have bought the book :)
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / ASTM A513 DOM

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